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I was saving all my commenting for later, but this struck a close enough chord that I had to chime in now with a personal anecdote.
For a number of months, years ago, I worked for the last local remnant of a large computer manufacturer/assembler. Specifically, in the Power Supply department upstairs where I didn't have to wear the itchy anti-static gear because, really, if your PSU can't handle a sock-generated static shock you already have bigger problems. Anyway, the senior employee and ring leader of our 5-man department was older than Jesus and frankly didn't give a shit anymore. The only project we ever had come through that made him sweat was a PSU order that was going into the goddamned International Space Station. I wasn't even allowed to look at the guy building that one.
Anyway, he had a routine where, anytime something fell, clanged, broke, burned (we had a burn-in station to pre-treat high-temp PSUs), or exploded, he'd yell "SHIP IT" and the rest of the team would echo behind him, and the entire floor knew somebody fucked up.
So, good work bringing that exact memory to the fore and letting me relive one of the only jobs I didn't hate until they moved me downstairs with the plebs.
For a number of months, years ago, I worked for the last local remnant of a large computer manufacturer/assembler. Specifically, in the Power Supply department upstairs where I didn't have to wear the itchy anti-static gear because, really, if your PSU can't handle a sock-generated static shock you already have bigger problems. Anyway, the senior employee and ring leader of our 5-man department was older than Jesus and frankly didn't give a shit anymore. The only project we ever had come through that made him sweat was a PSU order that was going into the goddamned International Space Station. I wasn't even allowed to look at the guy building that one.
Anyway, he had a routine where, anytime something fell, clanged, broke, burned (we had a burn-in station to pre-treat high-temp PSUs), or exploded, he'd yell "SHIP IT" and the rest of the team would echo behind him, and the entire floor knew somebody fucked up.
So, good work bringing that exact memory to the fore and letting me relive one of the only jobs I didn't hate until they moved me downstairs with the plebs.
Genre: Metahumor
Thoughts: This story is rife with meta things that I can smile about. First, it takes a self-aware approach to giving us a Luna Eclipsed Luna doing Luna Eclipsed Luna things. Her absolutely dogged misunderstanding of everything going on around her is charming in the specific way that Luna Eclipsed Luna tends to be. But then it also squeezes out some more humor by taking a mild jab at the practice of shipping. It’s light, punny, meta, and I like it.
I guess the “but” here is that it feels a bit long—believe it or not—for the material that ultimately drives the humor. It’s got some good gags, but they resolve quickly, which throws off the comic timing when there’s this much less-comedic material (e.g., parts of Parcel’s introduction) mixed in. As I’ve said about other stories: this isn’t bad, but it feels like it could use refinement. So while I think this is a good concept with a solid core, I feel like it’s not quite tuned up all the way yet.
Tier: Almost There
Thoughts: This story is rife with meta things that I can smile about. First, it takes a self-aware approach to giving us a Luna Eclipsed Luna doing Luna Eclipsed Luna things. Her absolutely dogged misunderstanding of everything going on around her is charming in the specific way that Luna Eclipsed Luna tends to be. But then it also squeezes out some more humor by taking a mild jab at the practice of shipping. It’s light, punny, meta, and I like it.
I guess the “but” here is that it feels a bit long—believe it or not—for the material that ultimately drives the humor. It’s got some good gags, but they resolve quickly, which throws off the comic timing when there’s this much less-comedic material (e.g., parts of Parcel’s introduction) mixed in. As I’ve said about other stories: this isn’t bad, but it feels like it could use refinement. So while I think this is a good concept with a solid core, I feel like it’s not quite tuned up all the way yet.
Tier: Almost There
Interesting, and cute, in its own show-like way. Thank you for writing this.
I really liked the beginning. It’s short, it’s punchy, and it sets up everything you need, except maybe the setting, which may not even be necessary in a story such as this. It does, however, feel slightly disjointed from the bulk of the story, which is more told than shown.
Prose-wise, the story is good. The text flows nicely, and though it is telly, the narrative voice did not feel too 'dry,' or emotionless, to me. I didn't find any typos, though there may be a few spots that could use a touch-up ("make like a thief and meet up with her beloved…" implies that all thieves are hopeless romantics --- though that could just be me nitpicking).
Good work also on Dash's and Pinkie's characterization.
But if I may ask: why exactly is it so bad for Dash that Pinkie, and everypony else, know that she's dating? I could think of a number of reasons (RD being unnecessarily ashamed, or she has to keep her relationships a secret to avoid any undue publicity because she's a Wonderbolt, etc.) but that reason isn’t entirely apparent, or at least it wasn’t for me on the first read-through (especially since it's explicitly said that Dash doesn't care about ponies gossiping about it). As a reader, I would likely be more invested in the story if that reason was physically shown in some manner.
That’s just my thoughts, however. I enjoyed the story as it was, and I want you to know that, author, whatever you choose to do.
Again, thank you for writing!
I really liked the beginning. It’s short, it’s punchy, and it sets up everything you need, except maybe the setting, which may not even be necessary in a story such as this. It does, however, feel slightly disjointed from the bulk of the story, which is more told than shown.
Prose-wise, the story is good. The text flows nicely, and though it is telly, the narrative voice did not feel too 'dry,' or emotionless, to me. I didn't find any typos, though there may be a few spots that could use a touch-up ("make like a thief and meet up with her beloved…" implies that all thieves are hopeless romantics --- though that could just be me nitpicking).
Good work also on Dash's and Pinkie's characterization.
But if I may ask: why exactly is it so bad for Dash that Pinkie, and everypony else, know that she's dating? I could think of a number of reasons (RD being unnecessarily ashamed, or she has to keep her relationships a secret to avoid any undue publicity because she's a Wonderbolt, etc.) but that reason isn’t entirely apparent, or at least it wasn’t for me on the first read-through (especially since it's explicitly said that Dash doesn't care about ponies gossiping about it). As a reader, I would likely be more invested in the story if that reason was physically shown in some manner.
That’s just my thoughts, however. I enjoyed the story as it was, and I want you to know that, author, whatever you choose to do.
Again, thank you for writing!
>>Trick_Question
That would be hilarious.
(Also, I kind of thought the payoff would be she's in love with herself.)
That would be hilarious.
So everyone else likes this but me. I've taken a while to organize my thoughts on it because I don't want to come off too grumpy; I want to explain why you lost me as best I can.
My largest qualm is with the ending. It made me feel icky, and I know you were intending that, but hear me out. Maybe it's just me, but it's hard for me to get into a story as morally wrong as this one when it's so easy-going on the surface, and especially when it's implied the protagonist suffers zero consequences for what she did. I can only assume that when the voice chimes in again after the curtains close he says, "Oh. I guess you can do that. Shows what I know. Don't mind me, you do you, girlfriend."
I got into an argument about this a while ago with Roger, and he would probably make fun of me for needing my morality spelled out for me in a story, but I stand by what I said then: Having a protagonist do something reprehensible and get away scot-free comes with it a stamp of endorsement from the story itself. And that's really where the ickiness comes from.
That, and I think this is one of those stories that would be getting a lot more side-eye if the genders were reversed.
And it's interesting, because it's not like the first scene is morally any better, thinking on it. It's easy to take the "It's fate, I ain't gotta explain it" approach at face value, but is it really okay to just toy with ponies like that? I won't dock you for that because fate being altruistic is kind of a standard concept in genre fiction, but this leads me into my second qualm.
I have so many questions. Who is this voice? Why are they in charge? What do they gain from any of this? Where and when is this taking place? Was it established that shiny and cadance been in magic school together? Why does none of this voice-of-love stuff exist in canon?
There's a lot of ways to answer my concerns, and with more space you could easily do it. And further to that, I want to +1 everyone above who wants to see more, because, don't get me wrong, I think this story deserves to medal. It's one of the most creative and well-constructed of the bunch. I just need more to get me onside and enjoy it, because I'm an asshole.
I hope some of that makes sense. Thanks for writing and good luck!
My largest qualm is with the ending. It made me feel icky, and I know you were intending that, but hear me out. Maybe it's just me, but it's hard for me to get into a story as morally wrong as this one when it's so easy-going on the surface, and especially when it's implied the protagonist suffers zero consequences for what she did. I can only assume that when the voice chimes in again after the curtains close he says, "Oh. I guess you can do that. Shows what I know. Don't mind me, you do you, girlfriend."
I got into an argument about this a while ago with Roger, and he would probably make fun of me for needing my morality spelled out for me in a story, but I stand by what I said then: Having a protagonist do something reprehensible and get away scot-free comes with it a stamp of endorsement from the story itself. And that's really where the ickiness comes from.
That, and I think this is one of those stories that would be getting a lot more side-eye if the genders were reversed.
And it's interesting, because it's not like the first scene is morally any better, thinking on it. It's easy to take the "It's fate, I ain't gotta explain it" approach at face value, but is it really okay to just toy with ponies like that? I won't dock you for that because fate being altruistic is kind of a standard concept in genre fiction, but this leads me into my second qualm.
I have so many questions. Who is this voice? Why are they in charge? What do they gain from any of this? Where and when is this taking place? Was it established that shiny and cadance been in magic school together? Why does none of this voice-of-love stuff exist in canon?
There's a lot of ways to answer my concerns, and with more space you could easily do it. And further to that, I want to +1 everyone above who wants to see more, because, don't get me wrong, I think this story deserves to medal. It's one of the most creative and well-constructed of the bunch. I just need more to get me onside and enjoy it, because I'm an asshole.
I hope some of that makes sense. Thanks for writing and good luck!
>>Miller Minus
It interests me in how readers find the latter action more morally repugnant than the first. Or, morally problematic at all.
So, tell me: why is what Cadance does with Shiny immoral in the slightest? I want to see what happens to your brain as you try to come up with a reason that doesn't hinge upon nonexistent fakery like "free will" or "fate".
It interests me in how readers find the latter action more morally repugnant than the first. Or, morally problematic at all.
So, tell me: why is what Cadance does with Shiny immoral in the slightest? I want to see what happens to your brain as you try to come up with a reason that doesn't hinge upon nonexistent fakery like "free will" or "fate".
>>Trick_Question
Trick, I mean this with all due respect, but the next time we're in a bar together, I'm going to cover my drink when you're around.
Trick, I mean this with all due respect, but the next time we're in a bar together, I'm going to cover my drink when you're around.
There are really a lot of:
Good stories this round! I love how this expands on that one line of Rainbow's from the Season Nine opener when she calls dibs on taking over as Dreamwalker after Luna retires. That's always been one of my favorite things to do with fanfiction: take something the show brushes against in passing and explore it further.
My only quibbles concern the parameters of the test--Luna disqualifies Dash when Dash can't find what frightens her, but then also disqualifies Pinkie even though just the first moment of Pinkie's attempt makes Luna whimper. I'd suggest adding more to the middle when expanding this for FimFic by having Rarity and AJ audition as well and gradually show us that the real problem of the story is that Luna doesn't want to retire. Fluttershy then comes in and allays those fears. But that's me: always with the suggestions.
I'll also mention that I don't really see a connection to the prompt here, but then I had the same problem with a story last round, and that story ended up winning 2nd place... :)
Mike
Good stories this round! I love how this expands on that one line of Rainbow's from the Season Nine opener when she calls dibs on taking over as Dreamwalker after Luna retires. That's always been one of my favorite things to do with fanfiction: take something the show brushes against in passing and explore it further.
My only quibbles concern the parameters of the test--Luna disqualifies Dash when Dash can't find what frightens her, but then also disqualifies Pinkie even though just the first moment of Pinkie's attempt makes Luna whimper. I'd suggest adding more to the middle when expanding this for FimFic by having Rarity and AJ audition as well and gradually show us that the real problem of the story is that Luna doesn't want to retire. Fluttershy then comes in and allays those fears. But that's me: always with the suggestions.
I'll also mention that I don't really see a connection to the prompt here, but then I had the same problem with a story last round, and that story ended up winning 2nd place... :)
Mike
Well guys, I’ve got one more review to post, but some mashup inspiration struck me so I decided to write that first. It’s been awesome being back among y’all. We’ve got some good stories this time, and I can tell people were having fun with the prompt!
So without further ado:
Laissez-Silence: One of Cadance’s less-dominant personalities begins bugging her about not knowing what semen looks like even though she’s the “princess of love.” Desperate to silence the voice, she casts Summon Roofie on Soarin, who just happens to be the first cute jock she runs into. However, upon witnessing this, a Canadian bluebird begins attacking her, drawing the aid (and moral outrage) of Class President Shining Armor. A nearby wolf’s howling provides the soundtrack to the ensuing mortal combat.
Special Parcel Delivery: Derpy’s been dead for the last sixteen years, but she keeps forgetting about this and showing up to work anyway. After working through his obvious alarm at the presence of the undead in the workplace, Derpy’s boss has successfully launched a side-gig of having her carry messages to loved ones beyond the veil. Things get awkward with the Apple clan—some of the P.O.’s most faithful customers—when Dinky meets a tragic and untimely end and finally corners her mom to talk about retiring.
You Get An F In Shepherding: Disaffected teenage Flurry Heart is looking to earn a little spending money, so she applies for an opening as Equestria’s Dream Protector on a whim—and aces the interview. Determined to use her newfound powers to make Equestria’s relationships great again, she unleashes unspeakable destruction upon families and other romantic partnerships across the land. It’s bad enough that Luna is forced to come out of retirement to try to stop her, but she’s unprepared to handle Flurry’s sass. It’s ultimately Twilight who talks Flurry down by pointing out how iffy it is that Flurry only seems to pair ponies of the same color together.
Lover Contingency: A story wherein the author couldn’t decide who to pair Dash with, wrote themselves all the way up to 750 words, then shrugged and shouted: “Ship it!”
So without further ado:
Laissez-Silence: One of Cadance’s less-dominant personalities begins bugging her about not knowing what semen looks like even though she’s the “princess of love.” Desperate to silence the voice, she casts Summon Roofie on Soarin, who just happens to be the first cute jock she runs into. However, upon witnessing this, a Canadian bluebird begins attacking her, drawing the aid (and moral outrage) of Class President Shining Armor. A nearby wolf’s howling provides the soundtrack to the ensuing mortal combat.
Special Parcel Delivery: Derpy’s been dead for the last sixteen years, but she keeps forgetting about this and showing up to work anyway. After working through his obvious alarm at the presence of the undead in the workplace, Derpy’s boss has successfully launched a side-gig of having her carry messages to loved ones beyond the veil. Things get awkward with the Apple clan—some of the P.O.’s most faithful customers—when Dinky meets a tragic and untimely end and finally corners her mom to talk about retiring.
You Get An F In Shepherding: Disaffected teenage Flurry Heart is looking to earn a little spending money, so she applies for an opening as Equestria’s Dream Protector on a whim—and aces the interview. Determined to use her newfound powers to make Equestria’s relationships great again, she unleashes unspeakable destruction upon families and other romantic partnerships across the land. It’s bad enough that Luna is forced to come out of retirement to try to stop her, but she’s unprepared to handle Flurry’s sass. It’s ultimately Twilight who talks Flurry down by pointing out how iffy it is that Flurry only seems to pair ponies of the same color together.
Lover Contingency: A story wherein the author couldn’t decide who to pair Dash with, wrote themselves all the way up to 750 words, then shrugged and shouted: “Ship it!”
>>Trick_Question
Using means he is unaware of, and cannot even perceive, Cadance is manipulating Shining Armor into falling for her. He cannot consent to something he doesn't know about. This is immoral.
Ouch oof my brain.
Of course, I think the answer is more complex than that; I just wanted to prove that you can distill the moral question down to a basic answer without involving fate and free will. But those things are at the heart of this story, and the central conceit is the former exists, and that Cadance is capable of overriding the latter. The story's ethics are intrinsically tied with discussion of those two concepts, and any discussion of them has to consider free will vs. fate. You might as well say that you should talk about romance without bringing up the ephemeral and irrelevant notion of love.
(On a sidenote -- free will is an abstract notion, but "nonexistent fakery?" Really???)
Let me take a stab at putting this into perspective. Cadance's powers, in this story's setting, are not to make people fall in love, but rather, to kindle the potential for love that already exists (which is always how I've headcanoned it). She makes connections happen which are supposed to happen, which might otherwise not happen without her intervention, because, just as part of the context here, people being fated to fall in love with each other is A Thing.
Within that context, what she does to Shining Armor isn't... mm. The metaphor people keep using is "roofie?" Like this is magic date rape? Despite my opening statement, I don't really see it that way, entirely. The date rape/sex offense parallel isn't quite 1:1. That doesn't make what she's doing morally right, though. Because I would argue that her reasons are selfish. She is explicitly told "you should not do this," but does it anyway, simply because she thinks he's a hunky studmuffin, and she's like fifteen, and teenagers are idiots who do idiot things.
It would be one thing if Shining and Cadance were in love, and Cadance was acting in his interest as well as hers, but we don't even have an inkling that Shining Armor is attracted to her. She literally does this as he's telling her about this other girl she likes. It's a fair interpretation here to say that she's using her powers to alter fate in a pique of jealousy.
My reading of this isn't date rape. She's not drugging him. But she is manipulating him, altering circumstances for her own benefit without his knowledge or consent. I'd read it as, say, someone getting on someone else's phone, deleting a message from their crush asking them out, and then swooping in to take them out for ice cream and steak, or whatever young people do on dates. And we don't know who Shining might've wound up with, if not Cadance, and we never will, because Cadance's hormones made her rewrite destiny.
Wow! Glimmer
So, tell me: why is what Cadance does with Shiny immoral in the slightest? I want to see what happens to your brain as you try to come up with a reason that doesn't hinge upon nonexistent fakery like "free will" or "fate".
Using means he is unaware of, and cannot even perceive, Cadance is manipulating Shining Armor into falling for her. He cannot consent to something he doesn't know about. This is immoral.
Ouch oof my brain.
Of course, I think the answer is more complex than that; I just wanted to prove that you can distill the moral question down to a basic answer without involving fate and free will. But those things are at the heart of this story, and the central conceit is the former exists, and that Cadance is capable of overriding the latter. The story's ethics are intrinsically tied with discussion of those two concepts, and any discussion of them has to consider free will vs. fate. You might as well say that you should talk about romance without bringing up the ephemeral and irrelevant notion of love.
(On a sidenote -- free will is an abstract notion, but "nonexistent fakery?" Really???)
Let me take a stab at putting this into perspective. Cadance's powers, in this story's setting, are not to make people fall in love, but rather, to kindle the potential for love that already exists (which is always how I've headcanoned it). She makes connections happen which are supposed to happen, which might otherwise not happen without her intervention, because, just as part of the context here, people being fated to fall in love with each other is A Thing.
Within that context, what she does to Shining Armor isn't... mm. The metaphor people keep using is "roofie?" Like this is magic date rape? Despite my opening statement, I don't really see it that way, entirely. The date rape/sex offense parallel isn't quite 1:1. That doesn't make what she's doing morally right, though. Because I would argue that her reasons are selfish. She is explicitly told "you should not do this," but does it anyway, simply because she thinks he's a hunky studmuffin, and she's like fifteen, and teenagers are idiots who do idiot things.
It would be one thing if Shining and Cadance were in love, and Cadance was acting in his interest as well as hers, but we don't even have an inkling that Shining Armor is attracted to her. She literally does this as he's telling her about this other girl she likes. It's a fair interpretation here to say that she's using her powers to alter fate in a pique of jealousy.
My reading of this isn't date rape. She's not drugging him. But she is manipulating him, altering circumstances for her own benefit without his knowledge or consent. I'd read it as, say, someone getting on someone else's phone, deleting a message from their crush asking them out, and then swooping in to take them out for ice cream and steak, or whatever young people do on dates. And we don't know who Shining might've wound up with, if not Cadance, and we never will, because Cadance's hormones made her rewrite destiny.
Wow! Glimmer
But for real, I do think that this is a good story. Easily one of the most creative and technically accomplished this round. If I had to suggest anything, I think you could elaborate on the ending, and the ramifications of Cadance's decision. Miller suggests that the voice not dressing down Cadance after her decision implies endorsement of her actions, and I... disagree? But it would provide a more concrete resolution to the piece.
>>CoffeeMinion
Had I been imbibing a liquid, it would have evacuated through my nostrils. A perfectly Prachett-esque take on failing to acknowledge one's expiration, I must say!
Derpy’s been dead for the last sixteen years, but she keeps forgetting about this and showing up to work anyway.
Had I been imbibing a liquid, it would have evacuated through my nostrils. A perfectly Prachett-esque take on failing to acknowledge one's expiration, I must say!
"Derpy, what are you doing here? You're supposed to be dead!"
"Sorry, Rainbow Dash -- my bad!"
"Seriously, that's, like, the third time this week! Go home!"
>>Miller Minus
I made a small correction above.
Forgot to Mort my Auteur.
I made a small correction above.
Having a protagonist do something reprehensible and get away scot-free comes with it a stamp of endorsement from theauthorstory itself.
Forgot to Mort my Auteur.
Let's do this. :dashcool:
>>Miller Minus
This is not a good analogy. Knocking somepony unconscious and raping them, leaving them to suffer the aftermath of the rape they did not consent to, is not the same as causing somepony to actually consent, which leaves them with no such aftermath.
For a better example, let's say Cadance wanted to impress Shining Armor, so she wore a subtle perfume that was advertised as having pheromones that attract stallions. Is that the same as rape? Only if you're trapped in a morality based upon arbitrary definitions.
Surely if Cadance influencing Shiny by means he is unaware is "reprehensible", then the perfume is equally abhorrent. But it isn't, because what Cadance did wasn't reprehensible. She has no information about whether Shiny's attraction to a random pony will end in happiness or heartache for him upon which to base a decision. However, she does know that she is intelligent and a princess and would likely be a better mate for Shining Armor (just statistically) than some random pony. Her action is likely to increase Shining Armor's lifelong happiness, which arguably makes it more ethical than connecting him to some young mare he has a crush on, or even doing nothing.
>>Posh
It always amuses me when people argue vociferously for or against an act that is not well-defined. Being convinced that Cadance did something wrong when it isn't even clear how what she did works or what its full effect will be suggests a moral viewpoint based upon absolutes independent of situation, and those are pretty easy to tear down.
EDIT: The paragraph below this one sounds like I'm insulting Posh and that is not my intent. I'm trying to understand the common point of view and am not labeling Posh with this thinking.
In this case perhaps it has something to do with a gross oversimplification of ethics by idealizing the concept of "consent" such that all you have to do to determine if something is ethical is see if it fits within that simplistic definition. Reality isn't that simple, especially when you're talking about situations that don't occur in our daily experience (like magic).
Shining Armor will consent to everything in his future relationship with Cadence. Her influencing him doesn't affect that. She isn't raping him and she isn't forcing him to do anything. If anything, she's helping him. It isn't so different from the perfume example.
>>Miller Minus
This is not a good analogy. Knocking somepony unconscious and raping them, leaving them to suffer the aftermath of the rape they did not consent to, is not the same as causing somepony to actually consent, which leaves them with no such aftermath.
For a better example, let's say Cadance wanted to impress Shining Armor, so she wore a subtle perfume that was advertised as having pheromones that attract stallions. Is that the same as rape? Only if you're trapped in a morality based upon arbitrary definitions.
Surely if Cadance influencing Shiny by means he is unaware is "reprehensible", then the perfume is equally abhorrent. But it isn't, because what Cadance did wasn't reprehensible. She has no information about whether Shiny's attraction to a random pony will end in happiness or heartache for him upon which to base a decision. However, she does know that she is intelligent and a princess and would likely be a better mate for Shining Armor (just statistically) than some random pony. Her action is likely to increase Shining Armor's lifelong happiness, which arguably makes it more ethical than connecting him to some young mare he has a crush on, or even doing nothing.
>>Posh
It always amuses me when people argue vociferously for or against an act that is not well-defined. Being convinced that Cadance did something wrong when it isn't even clear how what she did works or what its full effect will be suggests a moral viewpoint based upon absolutes independent of situation, and those are pretty easy to tear down.
EDIT: The paragraph below this one sounds like I'm insulting Posh and that is not my intent. I'm trying to understand the common point of view and am not labeling Posh with this thinking.
In this case perhaps it has something to do with a gross oversimplification of ethics by idealizing the concept of "consent" such that all you have to do to determine if something is ethical is see if it fits within that simplistic definition. Reality isn't that simple, especially when you're talking about situations that don't occur in our daily experience (like magic).
Shining Armor will consent to everything in his future relationship with Cadence. Her influencing him doesn't affect that. She isn't raping him and she isn't forcing him to do anything. If anything, she's helping him. It isn't so different from the perfume example.
>>Trick_Question
Are you arguing this for argument's sake, or is this the moral lens through which you're reading the story? Because it certainly does not improve my reading. If anything, "Cadance is a sociopath, and that's okay, because she's a smart and well-heeled sociopath" makes it, and its implications, that much worse.
If it's unclear how the rules of this universe work, then that's a problem that the author needs to resolve in editing.
Surely if Cadance influencing Shiny by means he is unaware is "reprehensible", then the perfume is equally abhorrent. But it isn't, because what Cadance did wasn't reprehensible. She has no information about whether Shiny's attraction to a random pony will end in happiness or heartache for him upon which to base a decision. However, she does know that she is intelligent and a princess and would likely be a better mate for Shining Armor (just statistically) than some random pony. Her action is likely to increase Shining Armor's lifelong happiness, which arguably makes it more ethical than connecting him to some young mare he has a crush on, or even doing nothing.
...
Shining Armor will consent to everything in his future relationship with Cadence. Her influencing him doesn't affect that. She isn't raping him and she isn't forcing him to do anything. If anything, she's helping him. It isn't so different from the perfume example.
Are you arguing this for argument's sake, or is this the moral lens through which you're reading the story? Because it certainly does not improve my reading. If anything, "Cadance is a sociopath, and that's okay, because she's a smart and well-heeled sociopath" makes it, and its implications, that much worse.
It always amuses me when people argue vociferously for or against an act that is not well-defined. Being convinced that Cadance did something wrong when it isn't even clear how what she did works or what its full effect will be suggests a moral viewpoint based upon absolutes independent of situation, and those are pretty easy to tear down.
If it's unclear how the rules of this universe work, then that's a problem that the author needs to resolve in editing.
>>Trick_Question
There's a difference between causing someone to consent, and making them consent. We have no reason to believe within the text that Shining would go with Cadance of his own volition. He could, but he doesn't seem to, which is why Cadance forces him to change his emotions, unbeknownst to him.
Not rape, true. However, that's not what happened in this story and I'm sure you're aware of that much.
Bad analogy only gets worse.
To say this is a bad take would be an understatement, but let's continue.
Actually she does. Or at the very least she knows when Shining's thread will tie into someone else's. The point of the story is that she ties Shining's thread to her own in spite of knowing things shouldn't be that way.
There's a punchline established here, but I'm gonna way till your next sentence to say it.
Colonialism in a nutshell. Now, it's generally agreed among educated peoples that colonialism is historically a very bad thing, so bad in fact that it'll take decades to fully comprehend its long-term negative effects. What you're proposing here is the same mindset as, say, a first world country colonizing a third world country. Sure, invading and manipulating the government of the third world country without the consent of its people could seem bad, but after all, isn't it for the greater good? But of course the first world country is doing all this for selfish reasons, and ultimately at the third world country's expense. So no, Cadance is not doing "what's best" for Shining; even the story makes this much clear.
But we do know what Cadance did, TQ. The rape/roofie analogy is flawed, sure, but it was the first thing to come to mind, and it's also not entirely off from what she did. Then again, we've been discussing what exactly it was that Cadance did in the Discord server, so I've had a lot of time to think about this.
The moral observation this story makes is: "If you had the power to force your crush to fall in love with you, would you do it? Probably yes." The fact that we don't know of any negative consequences, aside from the Voice being upset, only makes it more uncomfortable. It's like watching someone get away with murder.
This sounds like an argument made by someone trying to justify sexual assault on the grounds that the common definition of consent is "simplistic," and therefore maybe it wasn't sexual assault after all? In the context of this story it's more emotional assault, but the comparison remains intact.
Here's a question: Suppose you rape someone while they are in such a state of consciousness that they have no recollection of the rape occurring. Is it still bad? You might say no. I would say yes, since it still violates that person's sense of autonomy to such a degree they are effectively robbed of it. And autonomy, which is not the same thing as free will, is very important.
I'm a feminist libertarian, goddamnit, REEEEEEEE!
Does he have a choice in the matter? The story implies he doesn't.
Mainly because she didn't influence him so much as directly mold his heart's desire to fit her own wants. And no, there's no point in the story where we get the actual impression that Cadance is doing this for Shining's sake.
Except fall in love with her, but we've already been through this.
Colonialism justification once again, just more crassly phrased this time. Of course, the colonizer is much like the rapist, trying to put some of the blame on the victim while also trying to make one's own actions appear as not entirely selfish. To say that Cadance has even the passive desire to "help" Shining here is incredibly disingenuous.
Frankly, this story works because what Cadance did to Shining was bad, both from an ethical standpoint and (at the very least) as her failing in her position as a responsible princess.
causing somepony to actually consent, which leaves them with no such aftermath.
There's a difference between causing someone to consent, and making them consent. We have no reason to believe within the text that Shining would go with Cadance of his own volition. He could, but he doesn't seem to, which is why Cadance forces him to change his emotions, unbeknownst to him.
For a better example, let's say Cadance wanted to impress Shining Armor, so she wore a subtle perfume that was advertised as having pheromones that attract stallions. Is that the same as rape? Only if you're trapped in a morality based upon arbitrary definitions.
Not rape, true. However, that's not what happened in this story and I'm sure you're aware of that much.
Surely if Cadance influencing Shiny by means he is unaware is "reprehensible", then the perfume is equally abhorrent.
Bad analogy only gets worse.
But it isn't, because what Cadance did wasn't reprehensible.
To say this is a bad take would be an understatement, but let's continue.
She has no information about whether Shiny's attraction to a random pony will end in happiness or heartache for him upon which to base a decision.
Actually she does. Or at the very least she knows when Shining's thread will tie into someone else's. The point of the story is that she ties Shining's thread to her own in spite of knowing things shouldn't be that way.
However, she does know that she is intelligent and a princess and would likely be a better mate for Shining Armor (just statistically) than some random pony.
There's a punchline established here, but I'm gonna way till your next sentence to say it.
Her action is likely to increase Shining Armor's lifelong happiness, which arguably makes it more ethical than connecting him to some young mare he has a crush on, or even doing nothing.
Colonialism in a nutshell. Now, it's generally agreed among educated peoples that colonialism is historically a very bad thing, so bad in fact that it'll take decades to fully comprehend its long-term negative effects. What you're proposing here is the same mindset as, say, a first world country colonizing a third world country. Sure, invading and manipulating the government of the third world country without the consent of its people could seem bad, but after all, isn't it for the greater good? But of course the first world country is doing all this for selfish reasons, and ultimately at the third world country's expense. So no, Cadance is not doing "what's best" for Shining; even the story makes this much clear.
Being convinced that Cadance did something wrong when it isn't even clear how what she did works or what its full effect will be
But we do know what Cadance did, TQ. The rape/roofie analogy is flawed, sure, but it was the first thing to come to mind, and it's also not entirely off from what she did. Then again, we've been discussing what exactly it was that Cadance did in the Discord server, so I've had a lot of time to think about this.
The moral observation this story makes is: "If you had the power to force your crush to fall in love with you, would you do it? Probably yes." The fact that we don't know of any negative consequences, aside from the Voice being upset, only makes it more uncomfortable. It's like watching someone get away with murder.
In this case perhaps it has something to do with a gross oversimplification of ethics by idealizing the concept of "consent" such that all you have to do to determine if something is ethical is see if it fits within that simplistic definition.
This sounds like an argument made by someone trying to justify sexual assault on the grounds that the common definition of consent is "simplistic," and therefore maybe it wasn't sexual assault after all? In the context of this story it's more emotional assault, but the comparison remains intact.
Here's a question: Suppose you rape someone while they are in such a state of consciousness that they have no recollection of the rape occurring. Is it still bad? You might say no. I would say yes, since it still violates that person's sense of autonomy to such a degree they are effectively robbed of it. And autonomy, which is not the same thing as free will, is very important.
Shining Armor will consent to everything in his future relationship with Cadence.
Does he have a choice in the matter? The story implies he doesn't.
Her influencing him doesn't affect that.
Mainly because she didn't influence him so much as directly mold his heart's desire to fit her own wants. And no, there's no point in the story where we get the actual impression that Cadance is doing this for Shining's sake.
She isn't raping him and she isn't forcing him to do anything.
Except fall in love with her, but we've already been through this.
If anything, she's helping him.
Colonialism justification once again, just more crassly phrased this time. Of course, the colonizer is much like the rapist, trying to put some of the blame on the victim while also trying to make one's own actions appear as not entirely selfish. To say that Cadance has even the passive desire to "help" Shining here is incredibly disingenuous.
Frankly, this story works because what Cadance did to Shining was bad, both from an ethical standpoint and (at the very least) as her failing in her position as a responsible princess.
Tough for me to read, on the grounds that I know jack shit about music. This is a story about falling in love because of music.
I'm tempted to abstain, but... no, I found enough to like in the character and the elegance of the prose to make me feel comfortable rating it. I wish I could hear the music as you do, author, so I could understand this as it's meant to be understood.
Bottom of my ballot, because Octavia will never marry me. :<
I'm tempted to abstain, but... no, I found enough to like in the character and the elegance of the prose to make me feel comfortable rating it. I wish I could hear the music as you do, author, so I could understand this as it's meant to be understood.
Bottom of my ballot, because Octavia will never marry me. :<
Genre: Social Anxiety
Thoughts: I’ve been on a pro-OC kick this round, and I’ll mention it again: writing OCs is hard to do well, much less when you have so little space to do it in. This story takes its OC and weaves them into every aspect of the story, from concept, to structure, to the lens through which we see every action unfolding. It’s beyond just being the “perspective” character; we get so deep in their perspective that the story couldn’t exist without it. Da’s good!
I will complain some, however, about the very fragmentary nature of the episodes presented here. It’s all presented very economically, but my beef is that there isn’t a ton being told. The progression from watching, to encountering, to hanging with the Young Half-Six, feels its limited breathing room. Ultimately I’m left with the oldest complaint in the history of minific Writeoffs: IMO this just needs more words to let itself build. But fear not Author; there’s an equally long history of promising minifics making successful jumps to FimFiction in the 1000-1250 word rangeWHICH IS WHY I STILL THINK WE SHOULD EXPAND THE WORDCOUNT OF MINIFIC ROUNDS TO AT LEAST 1K OR SOMETHING AARGH ROGER WITNESS ME.
I’ll pick a bit on the final line, too. I think it’s not quite landing right now, because it’s not clear what direction it’s trying to pull things in. Granted, it gives the feeling of being very thematically consistent with our heroine’s storytelling tendencies; but there’s both darkness and light on that path, and I’m not sure which way we’re going.
Tier: Almost There
Thoughts: I’ve been on a pro-OC kick this round, and I’ll mention it again: writing OCs is hard to do well, much less when you have so little space to do it in. This story takes its OC and weaves them into every aspect of the story, from concept, to structure, to the lens through which we see every action unfolding. It’s beyond just being the “perspective” character; we get so deep in their perspective that the story couldn’t exist without it. Da’s good!
I will complain some, however, about the very fragmentary nature of the episodes presented here. It’s all presented very economically, but my beef is that there isn’t a ton being told. The progression from watching, to encountering, to hanging with the Young Half-Six, feels its limited breathing room. Ultimately I’m left with the oldest complaint in the history of minific Writeoffs: IMO this just needs more words to let itself build. But fear not Author; there’s an equally long history of promising minifics making successful jumps to FimFiction in the 1000-1250 word range
I’ll pick a bit on the final line, too. I think it’s not quite landing right now, because it’s not clear what direction it’s trying to pull things in. Granted, it gives the feeling of being very thematically consistent with our heroine’s storytelling tendencies; but there’s both darkness and light on that path, and I’m not sure which way we’re going.
Tier: Almost There
As much as I like a good emotional tearjerker, I always find myself needing a bit more to be able to greenlight my want of a good bit of moisture in my irises and some much-needed pangs in my hinterland of a heart. Suffice to say, this story didn't do it for me. Sorry, Author, this is gonna be another dissenting opinion of your entry.
Before that though, I do want to gather up my positives and just lay them out here. I think this story's messaging is nice. The bittersweetness of this story does help with the message a little. The second scene, though looking a bit janky as it is sandwiched between the other two, did showcase something closer to what I wished this story had gone for, which I'll explain later below.
The first thing that really stuck out to me that rubbed me the wrong way, right from my first read, was the dialogue in general. Might just be me, but it came off as very manufactured. The way the dialogue is currently used kinda seems like they're trying to define the story's main idea rather than actually help tell it. I do like the hopeful sentiments that are being echoed in their conversation, but to actually use them as a means of dialogue themselves does make everything look a bit rickety, and that's without adding how the dialogue seems to want to mollycoddle the readers with information they and the characters are already aware of whenever it gets the chance.
The prose that's structured definitely does not help the story one bit. As the dialogue is already driving the emotional crux of the story forward, they're really only there to establish and connect the scenes, perhaps make a few embellishments. It did a bare minimum to give the story some semblance of structure but honestly, I don't think that enough was done to make the story resonate properly. The sentiments used in the dialogue could've been utilized with better effect here. Maybe portrayed with imagery that's closer to home instead of something cosmic and ethereal in nature to ground the story to the characters still alive and kicking instead of those that contextually had long since passed.
What ultimately severed the last of my positives with this story was really the lack of overall focus beyond wanting to hit a series of emotional goalposts. The whole first scene, we're given a look at the mother-daughter relationship between Skydancer and Derpy, then after a small transition, we're given another separate mother-daughter relationship featuring a grown-up Derpy and her own Dinky. Individually, though a bit bare, I don't think either scene collapses unto themselves, but in tandem, they gave off an impression of nonconfidence in the story's ability to keep us emotionally invested.
Say we focus only on the scene with Skydancer and Derpy, discarding the rest. If the focus was narrowed down on two narrative paths, Skydancer's wavering health and Derpy's determination to continue her mother's work, then I think it'll be fine. Instead, with the addition of the second and third scene, we're reminded of the absolute fact that yes, ponies stay dead when they die, and that Derpy's childhood determination just tapered off as if it never mattered in the first place. The former comes across as a reaffirmation of something that never needed affirmation; the latter just malformed that aspect of her character and made it seem like a wasted opportunity of character development, positive or negative.
Conversely, we cut off the first scene and have our lens shifted to Derpy and Dinky. We have Derpy finding her commitments of seeing to those messages getting sent through wavering and Dinky bringing some much-needed boost for her mother. Yet when we put the first scene back into play, I'm just wondering why we even need the knowledge of Skydancer in the first place. It's not like we ever needed confirmation that yes, Skydancer was someone that mattered to Derpy. We never needed the context of all that mattered to Derpy up to that point being told to us in black and white for the story to really stick the landing. In the end, the whole first scene just feels like unnecessary padding for a story already fluffed up and ready for submission.
The second scene does pose an interesting shift in comparison to the rest, however. We're given a look at the aftermath of something, in this case the death of Derpy's mother. We're given a glimpse of how the protagonist handled it. Basically, we're given an inciting action, one that pushes the narrative forward. On top of that, we're given a drastic tonal shift. It's something that I wished was expanded upon because the dramatic shift that Derpy undergoes before and after the fact is crisp and clear, and with how everything is presented, it seems to have taken place in this small snippet of a scene. I just want to know more about how it affected her, how it was consequential to her not being able to fly higher than the stars to deliver those letters anymore. To me, it was a chance at grounding Derpy's character beyond the sentiments of hope and longing, to give us insight and offer us a chance to empathize with what she's going through. Put it another way, it was a missed opportunity to leave that scene as fleeting as it was.
Ultimately, I don't think the message is vaguely presented here, not at all. I just think that with how everything structured, the story is actually trying to drive home several messages all at once, which leads to the story itself being a little noncommittal and sloppy. Toss in the dialogue, I'm convinced this was definitely a rushed entry that wanted to be too many different things, yet could never have them come together as a cohesive whole by the end. I honestly admire the ambition and, again, the sentiment of the story. It's just that the execution leaves a lot more to be desired in my book.
Nevertheless, thanks for writing, and good luck!
Before that though, I do want to gather up my positives and just lay them out here. I think this story's messaging is nice. The bittersweetness of this story does help with the message a little. The second scene, though looking a bit janky as it is sandwiched between the other two, did showcase something closer to what I wished this story had gone for, which I'll explain later below.
The first thing that really stuck out to me that rubbed me the wrong way, right from my first read, was the dialogue in general. Might just be me, but it came off as very manufactured. The way the dialogue is currently used kinda seems like they're trying to define the story's main idea rather than actually help tell it. I do like the hopeful sentiments that are being echoed in their conversation, but to actually use them as a means of dialogue themselves does make everything look a bit rickety, and that's without adding how the dialogue seems to want to mollycoddle the readers with information they and the characters are already aware of whenever it gets the chance.
The prose that's structured definitely does not help the story one bit. As the dialogue is already driving the emotional crux of the story forward, they're really only there to establish and connect the scenes, perhaps make a few embellishments. It did a bare minimum to give the story some semblance of structure but honestly, I don't think that enough was done to make the story resonate properly. The sentiments used in the dialogue could've been utilized with better effect here. Maybe portrayed with imagery that's closer to home instead of something cosmic and ethereal in nature to ground the story to the characters still alive and kicking instead of those that contextually had long since passed.
What ultimately severed the last of my positives with this story was really the lack of overall focus beyond wanting to hit a series of emotional goalposts. The whole first scene, we're given a look at the mother-daughter relationship between Skydancer and Derpy, then after a small transition, we're given another separate mother-daughter relationship featuring a grown-up Derpy and her own Dinky. Individually, though a bit bare, I don't think either scene collapses unto themselves, but in tandem, they gave off an impression of nonconfidence in the story's ability to keep us emotionally invested.
Say we focus only on the scene with Skydancer and Derpy, discarding the rest. If the focus was narrowed down on two narrative paths, Skydancer's wavering health and Derpy's determination to continue her mother's work, then I think it'll be fine. Instead, with the addition of the second and third scene, we're reminded of the absolute fact that yes, ponies stay dead when they die, and that Derpy's childhood determination just tapered off as if it never mattered in the first place. The former comes across as a reaffirmation of something that never needed affirmation; the latter just malformed that aspect of her character and made it seem like a wasted opportunity of character development, positive or negative.
Conversely, we cut off the first scene and have our lens shifted to Derpy and Dinky. We have Derpy finding her commitments of seeing to those messages getting sent through wavering and Dinky bringing some much-needed boost for her mother. Yet when we put the first scene back into play, I'm just wondering why we even need the knowledge of Skydancer in the first place. It's not like we ever needed confirmation that yes, Skydancer was someone that mattered to Derpy. We never needed the context of all that mattered to Derpy up to that point being told to us in black and white for the story to really stick the landing. In the end, the whole first scene just feels like unnecessary padding for a story already fluffed up and ready for submission.
The second scene does pose an interesting shift in comparison to the rest, however. We're given a look at the aftermath of something, in this case the death of Derpy's mother. We're given a glimpse of how the protagonist handled it. Basically, we're given an inciting action, one that pushes the narrative forward. On top of that, we're given a drastic tonal shift. It's something that I wished was expanded upon because the dramatic shift that Derpy undergoes before and after the fact is crisp and clear, and with how everything is presented, it seems to have taken place in this small snippet of a scene. I just want to know more about how it affected her, how it was consequential to her not being able to fly higher than the stars to deliver those letters anymore. To me, it was a chance at grounding Derpy's character beyond the sentiments of hope and longing, to give us insight and offer us a chance to empathize with what she's going through. Put it another way, it was a missed opportunity to leave that scene as fleeting as it was.
Ultimately, I don't think the message is vaguely presented here, not at all. I just think that with how everything structured, the story is actually trying to drive home several messages all at once, which leads to the story itself being a little noncommittal and sloppy. Toss in the dialogue, I'm convinced this was definitely a rushed entry that wanted to be too many different things, yet could never have them come together as a cohesive whole by the end. I honestly admire the ambition and, again, the sentiment of the story. It's just that the execution leaves a lot more to be desired in my book.
Nevertheless, thanks for writing, and good luck!
>>Trick_Question
It wasn't an analogy. But I do have one, and it's as close to 1:1 as I can come up with, so hear me out.
Let's say for example that I'd been given a special power by a mysterious, unexplained voice. With this power, I can see everybody's opinion on the morality of Princess Cadance's actions in this exact story. "That's super niche," I say to the voice. He doesn't respond.
But I'm just fuming about Cadance, and I think I'm gonna go talk to my good friend TQ about this so we can fume together, but then I find you, and I start to read your opinion on Cadance's actions, and I learn that your opinion is a total hussie.
If you had my opinion, you would be much happier. We would get along better, and we wouldn't have to fight. Plus, I believe myself to be very smart, and to give you my opinion is, in a way, increasing your intelligence. Sure, that's insanely egomaniacal, and I also gain happiness from having you agree with me, but pay no attention to that stuff. I'm the altruistic one, here.
So I take my eraser, wipe out your opinion, and write in my opinion, word for word. Then I say hi, and you respond, "That irresponsible fucking child," and I say, "RIGHT?!" And we get along ever after.
Would you be okay with this? Before you answer, keep in mind that I'm a princess.
By the way, to your perfume point, I think you're attributing a lot of power to a guy's sense of smell, as well as a lack of respect for Shining Armor's ability to make decisions for himself. We're living in the land of conjecture here, but the idea that a girl's perfume has the exact same sway as literally tying the knots of fate together is a bit of a stretch in my eyes.
Anyways. I just wanted to clarify my points. I don't think either of us are going to change each others' opinion on this, so I'm super down to just drop it altogether.
This is not a good analogy.
It wasn't an analogy. But I do have one, and it's as close to 1:1 as I can come up with, so hear me out.
Let's say for example that I'd been given a special power by a mysterious, unexplained voice. With this power, I can see everybody's opinion on the morality of Princess Cadance's actions in this exact story. "That's super niche," I say to the voice. He doesn't respond.
But I'm just fuming about Cadance, and I think I'm gonna go talk to my good friend TQ about this so we can fume together, but then I find you, and I start to read your opinion on Cadance's actions, and I learn that your opinion is a total hussie.
If you had my opinion, you would be much happier. We would get along better, and we wouldn't have to fight. Plus, I believe myself to be very smart, and to give you my opinion is, in a way, increasing your intelligence. Sure, that's insanely egomaniacal, and I also gain happiness from having you agree with me, but pay no attention to that stuff. I'm the altruistic one, here.
So I take my eraser, wipe out your opinion, and write in my opinion, word for word. Then I say hi, and you respond, "That irresponsible fucking child," and I say, "RIGHT?!" And we get along ever after.
Would you be okay with this? Before you answer, keep in mind that I'm a princess.
By the way, to your perfume point, I think you're attributing a lot of power to a guy's sense of smell, as well as a lack of respect for Shining Armor's ability to make decisions for himself. We're living in the land of conjecture here, but the idea that a girl's perfume has the exact same sway as literally tying the knots of fate together is a bit of a stretch in my eyes.
Anyways. I just wanted to clarify my points. I don't think either of us are going to change each others' opinion on this, so I'm super down to just drop it altogether.
But let's all forget the drama a second, because I just had a crazy idea. I hope you don't mind, Author, that this might contribute absolutely nothing to your second draft. But I'm having fun and you can't stop me without revealing your identity. Neener neener neener.
So, listen.
Guys.
Coffee mentioned that he wonders if the two ponies from the beginning of the story aren't Cozy Glow's parents. I don't think this is too much of a stretch, considering one of their names is Gentle Glow. That's mad similar. He also theorized that the voice could actually be Grogar, ensuring that his ally will exist when he needs her to help defeat Twilight and her friends. I dunno if Grogar is that, uh, omniscient, but either way, if this really is Cozy Glow's parents then it's a reasonable assumption to say that this voice is evil, in this case. So if he's not a Good Guy™, why does he care so much about the moral implications of Cadance manipulating Shining Armor into liking her?
Because he knows how powerful they will become. He knows if they get together they'll be another hurdle in his master plans. Princess Cadance's hormones didn't just rewire destiny, they saved the entire goddamn world.
How's that for a moral dilemma?
So, listen.
Guys.
Coffee mentioned that he wonders if the two ponies from the beginning of the story aren't Cozy Glow's parents. I don't think this is too much of a stretch, considering one of their names is Gentle Glow. That's mad similar. He also theorized that the voice could actually be Grogar, ensuring that his ally will exist when he needs her to help defeat Twilight and her friends. I dunno if Grogar is that, uh, omniscient, but either way, if this really is Cozy Glow's parents then it's a reasonable assumption to say that this voice is evil, in this case. So if he's not a Good Guy™, why does he care so much about the moral implications of Cadance manipulating Shining Armor into liking her?
Because he knows how powerful they will become. He knows if they get together they'll be another hurdle in his master plans. Princess Cadance's hormones didn't just rewire destiny, they saved the entire goddamn world.
How's that for a moral dilemma?
>>Miller Minus
What do you mean they aren’t her parents? The name Gentle Glow is so similar!!!
;)
story aren't Cozy Glow's parents
What do you mean they aren’t her parents? The name Gentle Glow is so similar!!!
;)
>>Anon Y Mous
That's totally a way to say things! I present my tongue at thee, stuck betwixt my lips at an oblique angle!
That's totally a way to say things! I present my tongue at thee, stuck betwixt my lips at an oblique angle!
>>Miller Minus
If that turns out to be the very thing the Author is going for, you and me need to high-five so dang much. ^^
(watch, it’ll be a total coincidence) :raritydespair:
If that turns out to be the very thing the Author is going for, you and me need to high-five so dang much. ^^
I really like the idea of linking together separate tragedies that the audience is already familiar with. I mean, I still consider "I Remember You" as the best episode of Adventure Time, hands down. And I've done this kind of deal myself with some of the stories I've written. Overall, the idea is well-thought-out, IMO.
Now, I'm afraid that in terms of execution, this one didn't quite hit me the way I think you intended it to. I think a lot of this has to do with the way you establish your emotional rhythm. Let me try to explain what I mean.
Whenever a reader goes into a story for the first time, they're at an emotionally neutral point. This is especially true for Writeoff entries, because the reader is going in with no Genre Tags, Descriptions, Cover Art, or anything else that might prime them to be emotionally receptive to what they see. From my experience, the reader will generally read your couple of hundred or so words without emotionally reacting to it at all for the most part, (other than feeling curiosity at a good hook or boredom if they don't understand what's happening).
Now, your hook is great, how you immediately establish that this is dealing with a young Derpy. But what I think might be a problem is that the first scene as a whole is basically already just about as sad as you can get, in tone. Remember, your reader is going to be coming in and seeing all this sadness before they've become invested enough to react to it. It's basically just going to wash over them, and they're going to remain at the same emotional baseline they came in with.
When you follow up the first scene with two other scenes that are also basically as sad as they can get, the reader is also going to react to these the same way they reacted to the first scene, because these scenes don't feel all that different from one another. The story starts at one emotional place (strong sadness) and stays there, which means the reader's reaction will similarly flatline. I strongly think that you need a little bit of emotional contrast to break up this flow. IMO, you need the readers to feel invested and at a relative emotional high with these characters before you can pay off by introducing sadness.
So, I hope that all kind of made sense. I know that I'm spewing a lot of my own personal theory on how to make sad stories work well, because they're pretty much all I write. But I hope it was helpful, at least a little!
Thank you for entering!
Now, I'm afraid that in terms of execution, this one didn't quite hit me the way I think you intended it to. I think a lot of this has to do with the way you establish your emotional rhythm. Let me try to explain what I mean.
Whenever a reader goes into a story for the first time, they're at an emotionally neutral point. This is especially true for Writeoff entries, because the reader is going in with no Genre Tags, Descriptions, Cover Art, or anything else that might prime them to be emotionally receptive to what they see. From my experience, the reader will generally read your couple of hundred or so words without emotionally reacting to it at all for the most part, (other than feeling curiosity at a good hook or boredom if they don't understand what's happening).
Now, your hook is great, how you immediately establish that this is dealing with a young Derpy. But what I think might be a problem is that the first scene as a whole is basically already just about as sad as you can get, in tone. Remember, your reader is going to be coming in and seeing all this sadness before they've become invested enough to react to it. It's basically just going to wash over them, and they're going to remain at the same emotional baseline they came in with.
When you follow up the first scene with two other scenes that are also basically as sad as they can get, the reader is also going to react to these the same way they reacted to the first scene, because these scenes don't feel all that different from one another. The story starts at one emotional place (strong sadness) and stays there, which means the reader's reaction will similarly flatline. I strongly think that you need a little bit of emotional contrast to break up this flow. IMO, you need the readers to feel invested and at a relative emotional high with these characters before you can pay off by introducing sadness.
So, I hope that all kind of made sense. I know that I'm spewing a lot of my own personal theory on how to make sad stories work well, because they're pretty much all I write. But I hope it was helpful, at least a little!
Thank you for entering!
Let me start off by clearing up one thing:
>>No_Raisin
I agree that Cadence's actions are ethically dubious from the perspective of people in the world of non-magic, and I agree that makes the story work. That's one reason this story is in the number two spot on my slate.
I don't agree that her actions are necessarily unethical, however, and I don't find them morally repugnant.
>>Posh
I don't see Cadance as a sociopath, so that isn't my read at all.
>>No_Raisin
"Cause to happen" and "make happen" are synonyms. I'm not sure I see the distinction.
If I don't flirt with someone, there's no reason to believe they would flirt back of their own volition. That doesn't make flirting rape.
Cadence doesn't "force" Shining to change his emotions. She changes his emotions with her action, just as she might do by mundane means. The only difference here is presumably her approach is more likely to work than flirting might. So she's doing it more effectively.
We aren't told what happened to Shining Armor in the story. There is no indication that her actions are certain to affect him. But even if they are, I don't think the fact that she can control his desire makes her use of that control unethical. Once she controls his desire, he desires her. A relationship with her is quite literally what he wants to happen. (If she did this and had no intention of returning his affections, that would be unethical, I think.)
Let's not. Trying to bring the colonization of Africa into a discussion about the illusion of free will is out of bounds. If you want to say "the ends don't justify the means" or something, that's fine, but make the argument with your own words. You can't hinge it on social justice dogma and expect everypony to see it the same way.
As for the analogy itself, it's nonsensical. No, Cadence is not colonizing Shining Armor. He does not feel like he is being forced or violated in any way, and he's not losing territory or resources or his way of life.
If it feels like my argument is just "what she's doing is for the better", I have not made my argument clear. What she's doing is not a violation of Shining Armor whether or not it is for the better. It would be unethical if it were intentionally for the worse.
It's not a violation of Shining Armor, because at no step is he being forced to do something he doesn't want to do. What he wants to do is changing. Cadance's actions are not against his will: when she finishes, his will is to be with her.
One, I'm not trying to justify sexual assault. I think I've made that clear already when I rejected the roofie argument.
There is no "emotional assault". Shining is never forced to do anything against his will. His will itself is changed. He is not left with post-traumatic stress disorder. This isn't remotely like assault either in how it works or the intended effects.
No, I would say yes. The consequences still exist. Rape doesn't leave no trace whatsoever, and bad things can happen as a result.
Rape that leaves no trace at all? That would be somepony having a fantasy about raping somepony else, because a fantasy does not leave traces. And that isn't unethical.
Does anypony have a "choice" in who they're attracted to? Did he "choose" to be attracted to mares?
For my response to what you said at the end (I agree that her actions are apparently ethically dubious and that this is indeed the strong point of the story) see the beginning of this comment. :twilightsmile:
>>No_Raisin
Frankly, this story works because what Cadance did to Shining was bad, both from an ethical standpoint and (at the very least) as her failing in her position as a responsible princess.
I agree that Cadence's actions are ethically dubious from the perspective of people in the world of non-magic, and I agree that makes the story work. That's one reason this story is in the number two spot on my slate.
I don't agree that her actions are necessarily unethical, however, and I don't find them morally repugnant.
>>Posh
I don't see Cadance as a sociopath, so that isn't my read at all.
>>No_Raisin
causing someone to consent, and making them consent
"Cause to happen" and "make happen" are synonyms. I'm not sure I see the distinction.
We have no reason to believe within the text that Shining would go with Cadance of his own volition. He could, but he doesn't seem to, which is why Cadance forces him to change his emotions, unbeknownst to him.
If I don't flirt with someone, there's no reason to believe they would flirt back of their own volition. That doesn't make flirting rape.
Cadence doesn't "force" Shining to change his emotions. She changes his emotions with her action, just as she might do by mundane means. The only difference here is presumably her approach is more likely to work than flirting might. So she's doing it more effectively.
However, that's not what happened in this story and I'm sure you're aware of that much.
We aren't told what happened to Shining Armor in the story. There is no indication that her actions are certain to affect him. But even if they are, I don't think the fact that she can control his desire makes her use of that control unethical. Once she controls his desire, he desires her. A relationship with her is quite literally what he wants to happen. (If she did this and had no intention of returning his affections, that would be unethical, I think.)
Colonialism in a nutshell.
Let's not. Trying to bring the colonization of Africa into a discussion about the illusion of free will is out of bounds. If you want to say "the ends don't justify the means" or something, that's fine, but make the argument with your own words. You can't hinge it on social justice dogma and expect everypony to see it the same way.
As for the analogy itself, it's nonsensical. No, Cadence is not colonizing Shining Armor. He does not feel like he is being forced or violated in any way, and he's not losing territory or resources or his way of life.
If it feels like my argument is just "what she's doing is for the better", I have not made my argument clear. What she's doing is not a violation of Shining Armor whether or not it is for the better. It would be unethical if it were intentionally for the worse.
It's not a violation of Shining Armor, because at no step is he being forced to do something he doesn't want to do. What he wants to do is changing. Cadance's actions are not against his will: when she finishes, his will is to be with her.
This sounds like an argument made by someone trying to justify sexual assault on the grounds that the common definition of consent is "simplistic," and therefore maybe it wasn't sexual assault after all? In the context of this story it's more emotional assault, but the comparison remains intact.
One, I'm not trying to justify sexual assault. I think I've made that clear already when I rejected the roofie argument.
There is no "emotional assault". Shining is never forced to do anything against his will. His will itself is changed. He is not left with post-traumatic stress disorder. This isn't remotely like assault either in how it works or the intended effects.
Suppose you rape someone while they are in such a state of consciousness that they have no recollection of the rape occurring. Is it still bad? You might say no.
No, I would say yes. The consequences still exist. Rape doesn't leave no trace whatsoever, and bad things can happen as a result.
Rape that leaves no trace at all? That would be somepony having a fantasy about raping somepony else, because a fantasy does not leave traces. And that isn't unethical.
Does he have a choice in the matter?
Does anypony have a "choice" in who they're attracted to? Did he "choose" to be attracted to mares?
For my response to what you said at the end (I agree that her actions are apparently ethically dubious and that this is indeed the strong point of the story) see the beginning of this comment. :twilightsmile:
>>Trick_Question
While my hope is that we would come to see eye to eye on this, I realize there’s a decent chance that we will not. But I wanted to call out that I think something you said gets at the heart of the disagreement:
I think folks can agree that, in a sense, what you describe is indeed happening. But I think that’s the specific thing that Miller etc. are saying isn’t good. By changing Shining’s will through a means that leaves no clear mechanism for him to reassert it, he is in essence being deprived of “his” will. So from that point, the “against his will” that folks are claiming might be more accurately expressed as “not of his will.” He may take actions and make decisions with the new, internally-consistent will that’s been installed, but I think people are saying that it’s been tampered with to the point where it’s more reflective of someone else’s will than what would have been Shining’s own. (At least as far as romantic love goes—presumably he still retains other tastes and preferences).
However, I’ll grant that there’s a certain amount of assumption in what I’m saying. I might not have mentioned this if your one statement didn’t seem to illustrate the crux of the disagreement so succinctly.
While my hope is that we would come to see eye to eye on this, I realize there’s a decent chance that we will not. But I wanted to call out that I think something you said gets at the heart of the disagreement:
Shining is never forced to do anything against his will. His will itself is changed.
I think folks can agree that, in a sense, what you describe is indeed happening. But I think that’s the specific thing that Miller etc. are saying isn’t good. By changing Shining’s will through a means that leaves no clear mechanism for him to reassert it, he is in essence being deprived of “his” will. So from that point, the “against his will” that folks are claiming might be more accurately expressed as “not of his will.” He may take actions and make decisions with the new, internally-consistent will that’s been installed, but I think people are saying that it’s been tampered with to the point where it’s more reflective of someone else’s will than what would have been Shining’s own. (At least as far as romantic love goes—presumably he still retains other tastes and preferences).
However, I’ll grant that there’s a certain amount of assumption in what I’m saying. I might not have mentioned this if your one statement didn’t seem to illustrate the crux of the disagreement so succinctly.
>>Trick_Question
That's cool and all, but now that you made me think of it, I should probably make sure my drinks aren't spiked with date rape drugs more often.
Actually my bad. I should've used "force to happen" instead of "make happen." The picture becomes much clearer with this in mind, but anyway...
She arguably does worse, which is change his will. Put a pin in that.
As far as I know, there's no mundane method of changing someone's emotions like flipping a switch. And no, we're not talking perfume or roofies, that's dumb.
There are a few things that sound demonstrably wrong here, but let's just say that no, this is not like flirting but more effective. Cadance doesn't persuade Shining into anything, she forces him.
Assuming this story aligns with canon, then yes, it works. And there's nothing to imply otherwise.
Technically true, however, let's ask ourselves this: Would Shining have consented, or rather, did he ever consent to Cadance fucking with his will on such an epic level?
The answer's a hard no.
This is not about free will. It's about autonomy. In which case the colonialism comparison is very much warranted. At no point did I bring up Africa, but whatever.
TQ, I don't know if you know this... but I'm a white American. I've had a lot of time to think about what it means to be someone who (albeit indirectly) benefits from a society with a long and fruitful history of crushing the autonomy of others. I'm not doing this out of "social justice dogma," I'm doing it because it's what comes to my mind.
That's... funny.
Once again, he never consented to having his will changed, nor would he have.
Also, considering that Shining was apparently set down a different life path (the correct one, according to the Voice) before being set on a different one through Cadance's maniupulation, yes, I'd say his way of life was lost.
Arguably worse. But yes, his will was assaulted, unbeknownst to him. It's not like Cadance gently nudged him in a certain direction; she literally messed with the threads of fate so that she could have him.
Almost like this is magic or something.
Assuming the threads of fate are now irreversibly fucked with, then there would actually be traces of Cadance's actions. Mainly the fact that whoever Shining is supposed to be with is now left with a thread that will remain isolated, and boy does that situation deserve its own story. But no, I was referring specifically to the victim not recollecting what happened, as opposed to there being literally no consequences.
Are we talking about Shining's sexuality, or who he has a crush on? Because sure, while you can't just feel attracted to whomever all willy nilly, at least it's due to your own limitations, and not someone directing you to love them in particular. Fate (not free will, cut that shit out) plays a crucial role in this story. It's in the title. Shining was supposed to be with someone else, until Cadance manipulated things so that he became attracted to her. At no point did Shining himself come to find Cadance attractive; his newfound love was manufactured directly by someone else.
It's like Inception where someone plants an idea in your head without you knowing they did it.
Or whatever. I'm tired. I think I'll stop here.
I don't agree that her actions are necessarily unethical, however, and I don't find them morally repugnant.
That's cool and all, but now that you made me think of it, I should probably make sure my drinks aren't spiked with date rape drugs more often.
"Cause to happen" and "make happen" are synonyms. I'm not sure I see the distinction.
Actually my bad. I should've used "force to happen" instead of "make happen." The picture becomes much clearer with this in mind, but anyway...
Cadence doesn't "force" Shining to change his emotions
She arguably does worse, which is change his will. Put a pin in that.
She changes his emotions with her action, just as she might do by mundane means.
As far as I know, there's no mundane method of changing someone's emotions like flipping a switch. And no, we're not talking perfume or roofies, that's dumb.
The only difference here is presumably her approach is more likely to work than flirting might. So she's doing it more effectively.
There are a few things that sound demonstrably wrong here, but let's just say that no, this is not like flirting but more effective. Cadance doesn't persuade Shining into anything, she forces him.
We aren't told what happened to Shining Armor in the story. There is no indication that her actions are certain to affect him.
Assuming this story aligns with canon, then yes, it works. And there's nothing to imply otherwise.
But even if they are, I don't think the fact that she can control his desire makes her use of that control unethical. Once she controls his desire, he desires her. A relationship with her is quite literally what he wants to happen.
Technically true, however, let's ask ourselves this: Would Shining have consented, or rather, did he ever consent to Cadance fucking with his will on such an epic level?
The answer's a hard no.
Let's not. Trying to bring the colonization of Africa into a discussion about the illusion of free will is out of bounds.
This is not about free will. It's about autonomy. In which case the colonialism comparison is very much warranted. At no point did I bring up Africa, but whatever.
If you want to say "the ends don't justify the means" or something, that's fine, but make the argument with your own words. You can't hinge it on social justice dogma and expect everypony to see it the same way.
TQ, I don't know if you know this... but I'm a white American. I've had a lot of time to think about what it means to be someone who (albeit indirectly) benefits from a society with a long and fruitful history of crushing the autonomy of others. I'm not doing this out of "social justice dogma," I'm doing it because it's what comes to my mind.
No, Cadence is not colonizing Shining Armor.
That's... funny.
He does not feel like he is being forced or violated in any way, and he's not losing territory or resources or his way of life.
Once again, he never consented to having his will changed, nor would he have.
Also, considering that Shining was apparently set down a different life path (the correct one, according to the Voice) before being set on a different one through Cadance's maniupulation, yes, I'd say his way of life was lost.
There is no "emotional assault". Shining is never forced to do anything against his will. His will itself is changed.
Arguably worse. But yes, his will was assaulted, unbeknownst to him. It's not like Cadance gently nudged him in a certain direction; she literally messed with the threads of fate so that she could have him.
This isn't remotely like assault either in how it works or the intended effects.
Almost like this is magic or something.
Rape doesn't leave no trace whatsoever, and bad things can happen as a result.
Assuming the threads of fate are now irreversibly fucked with, then there would actually be traces of Cadance's actions. Mainly the fact that whoever Shining is supposed to be with is now left with a thread that will remain isolated, and boy does that situation deserve its own story. But no, I was referring specifically to the victim not recollecting what happened, as opposed to there being literally no consequences.
Does anypony have a "choice" in who they're attracted to? Did he "choose" to be attracted to mares?
Are we talking about Shining's sexuality, or who he has a crush on? Because sure, while you can't just feel attracted to whomever all willy nilly, at least it's due to your own limitations, and not someone directing you to love them in particular. Fate (not free will, cut that shit out) plays a crucial role in this story. It's in the title. Shining was supposed to be with someone else, until Cadance manipulated things so that he became attracted to her. At no point did Shining himself come to find Cadance attractive; his newfound love was manufactured directly by someone else.
It's like Inception where someone plants an idea in your head without you knowing they did it.
Or whatever. I'm tired. I think I'll stop here.
I don't see Cadance as a sociopath, so that isn't my read at all.
Close enough; she's a teenager. *badumtish*
It's not a violation of Shining Armor, because at no step is he being forced to do something he doesn't want to do. What he wants to do is changing. Cadance's actions are not against his will: when she finishes, his will is to be with her.
We seem to disagree, fundamentally, on the question of whether or not it ethical to overwrite a significant part of an individual's personality, without their knowledge or consent, so that they will be more compliant with someone else's wishes. That difference in opinion is too steep to overcome, which means we've gained all that we can from continued discussion of this story.
I wish you nothing but the best, and hope that you have a long and productive career with the Ministry of Love.
We have a few omniscient stories this round. Neat.
I think part of the reason many are taking issue with the last scene of your story (in addition to what they've already explained), is the perspective shift. The snippets of how the cupcakes are affecting each of the mane 6 are all from outside their heads (especially Fluttershy's snippet), and then suddenly we're with Zecora to explain the whole thing. If we had stuck with her the whole time, as she's taking a tour of all the awful things we've seen, or maybe just telling Applebloom about them, then that last scene is less of a whiplasher. Or, of course, you could have Applebloom describe it all to Zecora.
That sounds like fun.
Speaking of omniscient narration, if you do stick with it, I find it's a lot easier to drop the hr tags in that style. You have the ability to move through space and time a lot more smoothly than you do in a limited perspective, so I suggest taking out those tags, and maybe find a way to stitch all the scenes together. Otherwise, it's like watching a movie with several ten-second scenes that cut to black at each transition, and I found that jarring.
Thank you for writing! Good luck!
P.S. if this is a tribute to LD&R, surely cupcakes should be plural?
I think part of the reason many are taking issue with the last scene of your story (in addition to what they've already explained), is the perspective shift. The snippets of how the cupcakes are affecting each of the mane 6 are all from outside their heads (especially Fluttershy's snippet), and then suddenly we're with Zecora to explain the whole thing. If we had stuck with her the whole time, as she's taking a tour of all the awful things we've seen, or maybe just telling Applebloom about them, then that last scene is less of a whiplasher. Or, of course, you could have Applebloom describe it all to Zecora.
That sounds like fun.
Speaking of omniscient narration, if you do stick with it, I find it's a lot easier to drop the hr tags in that style. You have the ability to move through space and time a lot more smoothly than you do in a limited perspective, so I suggest taking out those tags, and maybe find a way to stitch all the scenes together. Otherwise, it's like watching a movie with several ten-second scenes that cut to black at each transition, and I found that jarring.
Thank you for writing! Good luck!
P.S. if this is a tribute to LD&R, surely cupcakes should be plural?
Probably the funniest thing I've read this round, but I can't get past how out of character Cadance feels. I realize that's the vehicle for the comedy, but making character-centric comedy reliant on characters acting out-of-character (without sufficient justification, anyway; see Cousin Orchard Blossom or literally any other Big Mac episode) results in kind of a paper thin narrative.
So, while you made me laugh, I ultimately can't score this very high. Sorry, author.
So, while you made me laugh, I ultimately can't score this very high. Sorry, author.
I do like that you made a story that could have been totally miserable so positive in the end. Kudos for that.
Now, um. I'm not one to tell someone with a disability what they can and can't do... But DD's impairment seems to be a hell of a barrier for her day-to-day life. I'm kind of surprised she still holds a job, and presumably that she lives on her own. I would think she could be retired on long-term-disability benefits, and perhaps have someone living with her to help her... not... injure herself. Is there subtext here that Triplicate is pretending DD still works as a mailpony so as to not scare her? Even then, that doesn't answer the living situation.
That might be something to expand upon, Author.
Thanks for writing!!
Now, um. I'm not one to tell someone with a disability what they can and can't do... But DD's impairment seems to be a hell of a barrier for her day-to-day life. I'm kind of surprised she still holds a job, and presumably that she lives on her own. I would think she could be retired on long-term-disability benefits, and perhaps have someone living with her to help her... not... injure herself. Is there subtext here that Triplicate is pretending DD still works as a mailpony so as to not scare her? Even then, that doesn't answer the living situation.
That might be something to expand upon, Author.
Thanks for writing!!
This has such a great hook. It immediately presents a question, and then uses the answer to introduce and develop the primary conflict in a way that keeps the reader curious throughout. Seriously, in my opinion this might be the best opening out of all the entries this month. The overall payoff is pretty straightforward, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, I usually do prefer it when minifics feel cozy rather than trying to reach for something they don't have the space to pull off.
I think my biggest concern is how you handle the transition into the rest of the story after the initial hook scene. Picking us up after a soft scene break with three or four big and bulky paragraphs really puts the brakes on the flow of reading, at least for me.
Now, I know what you're thinking. "What kind of illiterate mess can't get through four paragraphs without whining about it?" And while that's true to an extent, I think it's still worth mentioning that micro-pacing becomes far more important than usual within the confines of a minific. Instead of thinking of it as four paragraphs, I'd like to think of it as 20-30% of the story where not much really happens in the middle. It's not offensive, but at least for me, it certainly took some of the wind out of the momentum of the story and muted its final impact.
But other than this pacing hiccup, I don't think I've got much to say. This was a strong entry, IMO, so thank you for writing it!
I think my biggest concern is how you handle the transition into the rest of the story after the initial hook scene. Picking us up after a soft scene break with three or four big and bulky paragraphs really puts the brakes on the flow of reading, at least for me.
Now, I know what you're thinking. "What kind of illiterate mess can't get through four paragraphs without whining about it?" And while that's true to an extent, I think it's still worth mentioning that micro-pacing becomes far more important than usual within the confines of a minific. Instead of thinking of it as four paragraphs, I'd like to think of it as 20-30% of the story where not much really happens in the middle. It's not offensive, but at least for me, it certainly took some of the wind out of the momentum of the story and muted its final impact.
But other than this pacing hiccup, I don't think I've got much to say. This was a strong entry, IMO, so thank you for writing it!
>>Miller Minus
I've thought about this as well, because given the circumstances, Derpy shouldn't be working. I also have to wonder how old she is for this to be happening to her. She could be one of those really unlucky people who develops Alzheimer's in her 50s, but things are kept rather vague. I suspect the author wrote Derpy as having a job so that things appear to be normal at first, only to slowly pull out the rug by the end, and might not've realize, "Wait... how does Derpy live like this?"
I still feel like a different character should've been used, preferably one who isn't already known for being physically handicapped. Hell, an older AJ would be devastating for this sort of thing.
I've thought about this as well, because given the circumstances, Derpy shouldn't be working. I also have to wonder how old she is for this to be happening to her. She could be one of those really unlucky people who develops Alzheimer's in her 50s, but things are kept rather vague. I suspect the author wrote Derpy as having a job so that things appear to be normal at first, only to slowly pull out the rug by the end, and might not've realize, "Wait... how does Derpy live like this?"
I still feel like a different character should've been used, preferably one who isn't already known for being physically handicapped. Hell, an older AJ would be devastating for this sort of thing.
>>Bachiavellian stole my review. I had it all ready to go in my head and then I got to the comments and there were all my thoughts, exactly in the order I was going to say them.
Officer Shiny, arrest this man.
Officer Shiny, arrest this man.
You win imaginary points for writing about the Young Six. I've said it in the discord chat already, but for good measure I'll repeat it here
You're all sleeping on the Young Six.
I have two things to say. The first is to expand on KwirkyJ's commentary about the ending: It's written to be a clincher, but since it ties back into Birchbud's "stories" she wrote of these three, it's a little confusing what it's supposed to signify. After all, they're only asking if she has any stories, and Birchbud could tell them literally anything. She seems to have the imagination for it. Or, if she wants, she could reveal the stories she's written, but as Kwirky says (as does Birchbud) that would likely come off very off-putting to these three. And yet the line is presented to be very uplifting, a sort of success for our main character. She's overcome her anxiety, at least for today.
Really, if the thing about the stories in a bottle hadn't happened, I think that last line would be a lot better. As others have mentioned, really lean on Birchbud as a storyteller, maybe even give her stories in her arsenal that aren't about these three that she wish she could tell them about, and that ending line could really shine.
My only other comment is about Sandbar's voice. His vernacular isn't so surfer-dude heavy. I understand why it happened—his voice actor sounds so much like a surfer I'm pretty sure he was born on a boogie board—but to my knowledge Sandbar doesn't say things like "Bruh" or "Chillin".
That's it! Thanks for writing!
You're all sleeping on the Young Six.
I have two things to say. The first is to expand on KwirkyJ's commentary about the ending: It's written to be a clincher, but since it ties back into Birchbud's "stories" she wrote of these three, it's a little confusing what it's supposed to signify. After all, they're only asking if she has any stories, and Birchbud could tell them literally anything. She seems to have the imagination for it. Or, if she wants, she could reveal the stories she's written, but as Kwirky says (as does Birchbud) that would likely come off very off-putting to these three. And yet the line is presented to be very uplifting, a sort of success for our main character. She's overcome her anxiety, at least for today.
Really, if the thing about the stories in a bottle hadn't happened, I think that last line would be a lot better. As others have mentioned, really lean on Birchbud as a storyteller, maybe even give her stories in her arsenal that aren't about these three that she wish she could tell them about, and that ending line could really shine.
My only other comment is about Sandbar's voice. His vernacular isn't so surfer-dude heavy. I understand why it happened—his voice actor sounds so much like a surfer I'm pretty sure he was born on a boogie board—but to my knowledge Sandbar doesn't say things like "Bruh" or "Chillin".
That's it! Thanks for writing!
>>Miller Minus
No, Officer. Arrest this man for giving me a red bell and making me think my story was reviewed!
No, Officer. Arrest this man for giving me a red bell and making me think my story was reviewed!
>>Miller Minus
There's an element of "50 First Dates" here it seems, where her memory beyond a certain point becomes increasingly unreliable, but with the happy note of the pieces falling back into place with a little shaking. So, keeping her job as a mailpony seems pretty reasonable in that framework: ponies may move, but addresses don't change often and Ponyville is kind of a fixed quantity when you ignore the exploding library, crystalline castle, and giant magical school. Those are either noteworthy enough for Derpy to re-remember on her own, or to put on a different route. She might be confused as to why the names don't match the addresses like she remembers, but I think everything would get where it belongs almost all of the time.
There's an element of accidental... not cruelty, but negligence maybe, in the idea of the Post Office just pretending she still works there.PeoplePonies—young, old, working, retired, disabled, and otherwise—need to feel valued and trusted. Stringing her along with pretend work would break her heart every time she remembered what was going on, which seems to happen quite readily, and that's not what heroes do.
Bringing it back to the 50 First Dates comparison, I think Derpy would be pretty fine in day-to-day home life. She's not demonstrated to be particularly clumsy here; she manages to make bank deposits and store purchases with no difficulty, so I don't think she's in the "forget that I put the stove on 10 minutes ago" stage of memory loss just yet.
Though I do agree with >>No_Raisin that GeriatriJack would be absolutely scathing in this sort of scenario, but might lack the sweetness to the ending.
All that said, nice work, author. Sweet but not overwhelming.
There's an element of "50 First Dates" here it seems, where her memory beyond a certain point becomes increasingly unreliable, but with the happy note of the pieces falling back into place with a little shaking. So, keeping her job as a mailpony seems pretty reasonable in that framework: ponies may move, but addresses don't change often and Ponyville is kind of a fixed quantity when you ignore the exploding library, crystalline castle, and giant magical school. Those are either noteworthy enough for Derpy to re-remember on her own, or to put on a different route. She might be confused as to why the names don't match the addresses like she remembers, but I think everything would get where it belongs almost all of the time.
There's an element of accidental... not cruelty, but negligence maybe, in the idea of the Post Office just pretending she still works there.
Bringing it back to the 50 First Dates comparison, I think Derpy would be pretty fine in day-to-day home life. She's not demonstrated to be particularly clumsy here; she manages to make bank deposits and store purchases with no difficulty, so I don't think she's in the "forget that I put the stove on 10 minutes ago" stage of memory loss just yet.
Though I do agree with >>No_Raisin that GeriatriJack would be absolutely scathing in this sort of scenario, but might lack the sweetness to the ending.
All that said, nice work, author. Sweet but not overwhelming.
>>Posh
Well, it’s glaringly unrealistic, for one thing. Everyone knows that married folks who already have kids don’t do that.
Well, it’s glaringly unrealistic, for one thing. Everyone knows that married folks who already have kids don’t do that.
I would much rather see:
The first part done in dialogue with Lug Nut and some other employee talking about the problem. I always find that sort of thing more engaging to read than one character's interior ruminations since that can turn into an infodump pretty easily.
Also, the big payoff at the end didn't seem like much of a payoff to me since it's already been mentioned: "Replace the items that customers send back, hope that not too many of them really notice or care that it broke," it says haflway through the story. I was expecting some new solution rather than him going with one of the ones he'd already thought of.
Mike
The first part done in dialogue with Lug Nut and some other employee talking about the problem. I always find that sort of thing more engaging to read than one character's interior ruminations since that can turn into an infodump pretty easily.
Also, the big payoff at the end didn't seem like much of a payoff to me since it's already been mentioned: "Replace the items that customers send back, hope that not too many of them really notice or care that it broke," it says haflway through the story. I was expecting some new solution rather than him going with one of the ones he'd already thought of.
Mike
First and foremost, I want to clarify that I can't judge this entry as a story. If I start doing that, the majority of this review is just going to be me restlessly pointing out every singular aspect of this entry and elaborating on why it doesn't work in the typical narrative storytelling format. There's not a story to be had here, Author. Despite that, I think there are some good ideas and decisions at play here. I just wished that these ideas came together in a less rigid and clinical fashion than what's presented here.
I kinda like the idea that the identity of Rainbow Dash's lover, though being the inciting incident of the story, isn't really that important to the story itself. It's nice to see all the speculation going about town personally. Like the others, however, I do wish that we get more of Rainbow's perspective on her lover, especially since she was supposed to be the emotionally-stunted one. If you're telling me this nameless individual could make Rainbow Dash's heart pound, then show me. Convince me that that's the case.
I do like the omniscient narrator approach that this story has going for it. Apart from giving us some funny insights from Ponyville's many residents, it also gives us a variety of names to cross out, which I think heightens our personal suspense more so than the characters in-story. I think it helps invest us in knowing who Rainbow Dash's lover is. It's just that, again, we're never given insight into how and why this nameless individual came to be Rainbow Dash's lover, so the payoff that the suspense had been building up wasn't there. The anticlimactic finale didn't bother me at all for this very reason, in that I was never interested in who this random lover was in the first place.
I think you have some pretty neat ideas here, Author. I just don't think they're as compelling as I think you believe them to be to warrant discarding a more personal approach and letting them hold their own.
Thanks for writing, and good luck!
I kinda like the idea that the identity of Rainbow Dash's lover, though being the inciting incident of the story, isn't really that important to the story itself. It's nice to see all the speculation going about town personally. Like the others, however, I do wish that we get more of Rainbow's perspective on her lover, especially since she was supposed to be the emotionally-stunted one. If you're telling me this nameless individual could make Rainbow Dash's heart pound, then show me. Convince me that that's the case.
I do like the omniscient narrator approach that this story has going for it. Apart from giving us some funny insights from Ponyville's many residents, it also gives us a variety of names to cross out, which I think heightens our personal suspense more so than the characters in-story. I think it helps invest us in knowing who Rainbow Dash's lover is. It's just that, again, we're never given insight into how and why this nameless individual came to be Rainbow Dash's lover, so the payoff that the suspense had been building up wasn't there. The anticlimactic finale didn't bother me at all for this very reason, in that I was never interested in who this random lover was in the first place.
I think you have some pretty neat ideas here, Author. I just don't think they're as compelling as I think you believe them to be to warrant discarding a more personal approach and letting them hold their own.
Thanks for writing, and good luck!
>>Miller Minus >>Posh >>No_Raisin >>CoffeeMinion
I could do a whole lot of words and stuff, but I'm not going to. I don't want to derail what should be a thread about the story, and we at least agree that Cadence's act is morally questionable and that this moral question is vital to what makes the story interesting. Going beyond this for the sake of argument isn't super useful as author feedback, so I ain't gonna do it beyond saying a couple of simple things just to make sure I don't seem monstrous, maybe.
It's worth mentioning that the reason I self-banished myself from the Writeoff chat a year ago is because I pursued an argument too far on a story with similar themes, and ponies ended up hurt by my actions. I don't feel comfortable being there as a result.
Okay. That said, you guys are awesome. I love you all and I respect your points of view.
No, I don't think raping someone is remotely ethical.
Yes, I do think Cadance's actions are not necessarily unethical. I might be entirely okay with what she did if she had researched Shining Armor in more depth first, and one of the things that eases my conscience is the fact that Cadance also made herself fall in love with him by virtue of her action.
If I learned that my husband had used a love potion on me to make me fall in love with him many years ago, I'd be totally fine with that. It wouldn't bother me in the least, because I love him; perhaps because of the love potion, but that doesn't matter. What matters is just that I love him, which I do. I'm not sure why something like that should bother me.
I've written one or two or three stories (and to an extent the one I mentioned above) on this moral theme already, but I am definitely writing a story on this specific topic now. Not about Cadance and Shiny, and not very derivative, but it'll involve Applejack's incredulity that some of her friends don't mind how something happened. So thank you all for this wonderful inspiration. <3
Huh. You know, all of those stories I linked to are highly controversial. I wonder why... :trixieshiftleft:
Anyway, back to the reviews. :twilightsmile:
I could do a whole lot of words and stuff, but I'm not going to. I don't want to derail what should be a thread about the story, and we at least agree that Cadence's act is morally questionable and that this moral question is vital to what makes the story interesting. Going beyond this for the sake of argument isn't super useful as author feedback, so I ain't gonna do it beyond saying a couple of simple things just to make sure I don't seem monstrous, maybe.
It's worth mentioning that the reason I self-banished myself from the Writeoff chat a year ago is because I pursued an argument too far on a story with similar themes, and ponies ended up hurt by my actions. I don't feel comfortable being there as a result.
Okay. That said, you guys are awesome. I love you all and I respect your points of view.
No, I don't think raping someone is remotely ethical.
Yes, I do think Cadance's actions are not necessarily unethical. I might be entirely okay with what she did if she had researched Shining Armor in more depth first, and one of the things that eases my conscience is the fact that Cadance also made herself fall in love with him by virtue of her action.
If I learned that my husband had used a love potion on me to make me fall in love with him many years ago, I'd be totally fine with that. It wouldn't bother me in the least, because I love him; perhaps because of the love potion, but that doesn't matter. What matters is just that I love him, which I do. I'm not sure why something like that should bother me.
I've written one or two or three stories (and to an extent the one I mentioned above) on this moral theme already, but I am definitely writing a story on this specific topic now. Not about Cadance and Shiny, and not very derivative, but it'll involve Applejack's incredulity that some of her friends don't mind how something happened. So thank you all for this wonderful inspiration. <3
Huh. You know, all of those stories I linked to are highly controversial. I wonder why... :trixieshiftleft:
Anyway, back to the reviews. :twilightsmile:
I must confess, when I saw the thumbnail I thought this was an anthro Fluttershy. The wings sort of look like arms and shoulders…
This is a harmoniously drawn and composed piece, and is beautifully colored. I love the mare in the moon and the subtle linework. Luna’s shoe looks flat to me; you should curve the highlight on it.
This piece will go high on my slate. Thanks for creating it, Artist!
This is a harmoniously drawn and composed piece, and is beautifully colored. I love the mare in the moon and the subtle linework. Luna’s shoe looks flat to me; you should curve the highlight on it.
This piece will go high on my slate. Thanks for creating it, Artist!
The background is a standard star-field; perhaps edited from a photo. It doesn’t detract from the the main subject: the Luna-Flutter-fly. The body is simple in comparison to the wings, which mirror each other with unearthly perfection. The details on the wings are near perfect in representing Luna’s color and Fluttershy’s cutie mark. The colors jump out and are rich and satisfying. This is an excellent piece that will take high marks on my slate. Thanks for creating it, Artist!
I love the multiple layers in this work. I didn’t even notice the face of the protagonist in the bottle until the second or third look, and then it was like one of those “When you see it” creepypasta things. The execution is cruder than I’d like to see for a work of introspection, but even so you manage to get the elements of the story into one basic object, so color me impressed. This piece will go high on my slate, with all the other ones that are also going high. Thanks for creating it, Artist!
As mentioned by everybody else before me, the prose is definitely the big highlight of this entry here. You've taken a small scene, stretched it for as long as the word count would allow and really just going all out with it here. I would say though, as much as I like my prose purpler than our friendly neighborhood 𝓐𝓛𝓘𝓒𝓞𝓡𝓝 here, I'd also like a bit of consistency with the imagery being dished out. You know, maybe have the imagery adhere to a certain theme that helps embellish the idea of the scene here. I do like it as it is, don't get me wrong, I think the Pollockian approach to the imagery does have its own charm. I just think that with how layered and thick the prose is pacing-wise, it'll be nice if we're given something more harmonious, more vibrant and more cohesive for it to really stick to the back of our minds.
Other than that, I like what's going on here. It's a little skeletal if you take away all the prose, even for a scene, yet I think it preserves the rush of emotions that are going through, which I think is the story's point. I'm not sure how you're willing to expand this, but it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
Thanks for writing, and good luck!
Other than that, I like what's going on here. It's a little skeletal if you take away all the prose, even for a scene, yet I think it preserves the rush of emotions that are going through, which I think is the story's point. I'm not sure how you're willing to expand this, but it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
Thanks for writing, and good luck!
Just gonna slip in an actual review here; don't mind me at all.
So undeniably, this story turns heads. Plus you're automatically winning points in my personal book for writing a story that explores the psychology and abilities of Princesses. Seriously, this kind of stuff is why I got into pony fanfiction in the first place. This is some top-tier creative work.
Now, despite the fact that this kind of stuff is basically right up my alley, I'm going to have to be honest and say that my emotional reaction was a little muted. Honestly, this confused me too, but I've given it some thought and I think I've kind of figured out why I didn't react as much as I thought I would.
It mostly boils down to the fact that this piece's connections back to show-canon are kind of vague. For instance, regarding the Voice, at the very least we know that they're cold and distant, considering the way they approach Cadance. And their intentions seem to be good, for the most part, at least on the surface level (without getting into Coffee's Grogar theory). But even if we take for granted that they have these ponies' interests in mind, the fact that we know so little about it makes it difficult for me to particularly care when Cadance decides to disobey it.
Speaking of Cadance, her act to re-tie the strings of fate is kind of depicted as something that will have a lot of consequences, but the fact that we don't go into these consequences is kind of frustrating. Show-canon depicts Cadance and Shining in a happy relationship free of any of the repercussions that I might imagine when I think about tampering with the strings of fate and love. So, our two possibilities are that there were consequences, but they didn't impact their relationship, or there were no consequences at all, despite the story building it up that way.
Basically, I can't help but think that this piece may have been trying to bite off a bit more than it can chew. The central idea is certainly a clever one and it's deceptively simple, but it kind of ends up asking important questions that it doesn't resolve. And I think that's where a lot of my frustration is coming from.
I hope that was at least a little helpful; I know I'm kind of rambling here. Thank you very much for entering this round!
So undeniably, this story turns heads. Plus you're automatically winning points in my personal book for writing a story that explores the psychology and abilities of Princesses. Seriously, this kind of stuff is why I got into pony fanfiction in the first place. This is some top-tier creative work.
Now, despite the fact that this kind of stuff is basically right up my alley, I'm going to have to be honest and say that my emotional reaction was a little muted. Honestly, this confused me too, but I've given it some thought and I think I've kind of figured out why I didn't react as much as I thought I would.
It mostly boils down to the fact that this piece's connections back to show-canon are kind of vague. For instance, regarding the Voice, at the very least we know that they're cold and distant, considering the way they approach Cadance. And their intentions seem to be good, for the most part, at least on the surface level (without getting into Coffee's Grogar theory). But even if we take for granted that they have these ponies' interests in mind, the fact that we know so little about it makes it difficult for me to particularly care when Cadance decides to disobey it.
Speaking of Cadance, her act to re-tie the strings of fate is kind of depicted as something that will have a lot of consequences, but the fact that we don't go into these consequences is kind of frustrating. Show-canon depicts Cadance and Shining in a happy relationship free of any of the repercussions that I might imagine when I think about tampering with the strings of fate and love. So, our two possibilities are that there were consequences, but they didn't impact their relationship, or there were no consequences at all, despite the story building it up that way.
Basically, I can't help but think that this piece may have been trying to bite off a bit more than it can chew. The central idea is certainly a clever one and it's deceptively simple, but it kind of ends up asking important questions that it doesn't resolve. And I think that's where a lot of my frustration is coming from.
I hope that was at least a little helpful; I know I'm kind of rambling here. Thank you very much for entering this round!
This was a really cool move, to go with the ultra-high-level omniscient narration. To give you a datapoint, it actually worked for me pretty well. I felt engaged, and I got through the piece without feeling like I was being talked at, which is usually the kind of pitfall that can happen with these sorts of arrangements. So, really nice job with crafting your narrative voice, here.
Unfortunately, I think your success that the narration might have been a bit of a double-edged sword, because it did impact my experience with the ending. To be honest, I actually wasn't all that disappointed when the denied reveal came up. I think this has to do with the ultra-high-level prose, which conveys a kind of sense of comfortable detachment from the characters and events of the story, even when—and I'd argue, especially when—it's well done. I kind of just floated through the story in amusement, and in the end, while it was kind of unexpected for Dash's smooch-partner not to be revealed, I didn't have a very profound emotional reaction to this fact, which I suspect you were going for.
So overall, I had fun with this story, no doubt. But I think it couldn't quite pull off its gimmick with me. I'm not sure if this means I'm gonna be rating this higher or lower than I would have if I were pulling my hair out right now, but regardless, thank you for writing!
Unfortunately, I think your success that the narration might have been a bit of a double-edged sword, because it did impact my experience with the ending. To be honest, I actually wasn't all that disappointed when the denied reveal came up. I think this has to do with the ultra-high-level prose, which conveys a kind of sense of comfortable detachment from the characters and events of the story, even when—and I'd argue, especially when—it's well done. I kind of just floated through the story in amusement, and in the end, while it was kind of unexpected for Dash's smooch-partner not to be revealed, I didn't have a very profound emotional reaction to this fact, which I suspect you were going for.
So overall, I had fun with this story, no doubt. But I think it couldn't quite pull off its gimmick with me. I'm not sure if this means I'm gonna be rating this higher or lower than I would have if I were pulling my hair out right now, but regardless, thank you for writing!
I think the third person narration here works pretty well. There's a simplicity to it that fits Ditzy/Derpy's depiction here very well, and it largely does a good job of staying invisible and doing its job.
Now, this is something that I'm sure some Writeoff vets will notice I say a lot, but I'm not usually a fan of cutting up a minific into smaller pieces. I can see what you're going for here, with putting some distance between the twist and Ditzy's emotional state in the beginning, but for me each scene change was still a bit rough for me, personally.
Speaking of the twist, I'm afraid I can't say much other than that it seems to be decently executed. I don't have any close relatives with memory problems or dementia (other than one great-uncle who I've only met a handful of times), so I'm afraid I can't really speak to that element of the story too much. Sorry!
Other than that, I thought this piece was very readable. It seems to be hit-or-miss with how it executed on its stakes, judging from our other reviewers, so you might want to polish up on the specifics of the reveal to avoid the issues they bring up.
Thank you for writing!
Now, this is something that I'm sure some Writeoff vets will notice I say a lot, but I'm not usually a fan of cutting up a minific into smaller pieces. I can see what you're going for here, with putting some distance between the twist and Ditzy's emotional state in the beginning, but for me each scene change was still a bit rough for me, personally.
Speaking of the twist, I'm afraid I can't say much other than that it seems to be decently executed. I don't have any close relatives with memory problems or dementia (other than one great-uncle who I've only met a handful of times), so I'm afraid I can't really speak to that element of the story too much. Sorry!
Other than that, I thought this piece was very readable. It seems to be hit-or-miss with how it executed on its stakes, judging from our other reviewers, so you might want to polish up on the specifics of the reveal to avoid the issues they bring up.
Thank you for writing!
So I have no idea how, but you've managed to make a strong hook out of what could be the most mundane and low-key opening scene this month. So, bravo on that. This is the part where I usually say something about big chunky info-dumping paragraphs being bad for the flow of a minific, but I can't preach that particular line without lying right now, because this really does work surprisingly well. I didn't really feel tempted to skim at any point, so nicely done!
I think the part of the story that I have the most difficulty with is the payoff. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's fun. But it's a little sparse. The culmination of the story is one mildly amusing joke about commercialism, which I'm sure most readers would have at least seen a flavor or two of before. It's serviceable, but it certainly does lose its luster, especially on re-reads.
So while I think this story does a great job of executing on what it sets out to do (and surprisingly well, considering the style of opening you've decided to go for), It never really got much more reaction out of me other than a general sense of amusement. THat might have been exactly what you were going for, though, so I'm definitely not disappointed by what we get.
Thank you for submitting!
I think the part of the story that I have the most difficulty with is the payoff. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's fun. But it's a little sparse. The culmination of the story is one mildly amusing joke about commercialism, which I'm sure most readers would have at least seen a flavor or two of before. It's serviceable, but it certainly does lose its luster, especially on re-reads.
So while I think this story does a great job of executing on what it sets out to do (and surprisingly well, considering the style of opening you've decided to go for), It never really got much more reaction out of me other than a general sense of amusement. THat might have been exactly what you were going for, though, so I'm definitely not disappointed by what we get.
Thank you for submitting!
I really like how you handle pacing and flow, here. You start and end each scene exactly where they need, and you deliver information at exactly the right places to develop the stakes of the story. I have to admit, that my own reading experience did hiccup at the hard scene break, but I reoriented myself pretty quickly, and it didn't really impact my overall perception of the story. Overall, this is just very well-constructed at both the high-level and the micro-level.
My only qualms with this story are minor, and they're ones that were already brought up by our other reviewers. I would like some more expansion on what makes Fluttershy in particular more suited to dream-crafting than Pinkie and Dash. At the moment, my interpretation is that it is because she has an attentiveness and a caring nature that the other two candidates don't have, but some more development on this idea would be nice, if it is what you were going for.
So overall, I thought this piece was excellent. Thank you very much for submitting it!
My only qualms with this story are minor, and they're ones that were already brought up by our other reviewers. I would like some more expansion on what makes Fluttershy in particular more suited to dream-crafting than Pinkie and Dash. At the moment, my interpretation is that it is because she has an attentiveness and a caring nature that the other two candidates don't have, but some more development on this idea would be nice, if it is what you were going for.
So overall, I thought this piece was excellent. Thank you very much for submitting it!
Now I'll be honest, I haven't really warmed up to the Student 6 yet. I mean, I won't let that impact how I vote on this story, but I'm letting you know so that you'll know to take my comments with a grain of salt.
Okay, to start things off, I really like how strongly Birchbud's voice comes across in her writing, and in the narration itself. It's really endearing, and her journal entries do make it feel like we're getting to know her. Nicely done!
But I think one part of the story that kind of rubs on me the wrong way is the general pacing. It's just that you've really cut up your word count a lot, here. With six scenes, we're going to be averaging 125 words per scene. When I write, I usually try to give the reader about fifty to a hundred words at the start of each scene just to orient themselves. I'm not saying that you should write this story the way I would have, but I just want to highlight that jumping from scene to scene really can take a toll on your readers' attention.
Another note that I want to make, is that I feel like the best parts of the story were the first three scenes, before Birchbud starts interacting in earnest with our three Student characters. Part of this is because once Birchburd starts talking to them, we lose the journal entry approach that I really thought worked well. Another part is probably the fact that I'm just not very familiar with the Student 6, and I don't know what makes them tick, so when they become bigger players, I kinda lose my place. Grain of salt, remember?
So overall, this is a really cute story, but I'm not exactly cozy with it yet, because of how things are paced and structured. I hope that kind of makes sense!
Thank you very much for writing this!
Okay, to start things off, I really like how strongly Birchbud's voice comes across in her writing, and in the narration itself. It's really endearing, and her journal entries do make it feel like we're getting to know her. Nicely done!
But I think one part of the story that kind of rubs on me the wrong way is the general pacing. It's just that you've really cut up your word count a lot, here. With six scenes, we're going to be averaging 125 words per scene. When I write, I usually try to give the reader about fifty to a hundred words at the start of each scene just to orient themselves. I'm not saying that you should write this story the way I would have, but I just want to highlight that jumping from scene to scene really can take a toll on your readers' attention.
Another note that I want to make, is that I feel like the best parts of the story were the first three scenes, before Birchbud starts interacting in earnest with our three Student characters. Part of this is because once Birchburd starts talking to them, we lose the journal entry approach that I really thought worked well. Another part is probably the fact that I'm just not very familiar with the Student 6, and I don't know what makes them tick, so when they become bigger players, I kinda lose my place. Grain of salt, remember?
So overall, this is a really cute story, but I'm not exactly cozy with it yet, because of how things are paced and structured. I hope that kind of makes sense!
Thank you very much for writing this!
>>CoffeeMinion
Due to unfortunate circumstances that have recently developed, I think if I talk in the Discord server, I owe Coffee a quarter. Or a soda, or an icecream, or something. So I'm just gonna do some more Mashups instead.
It's No Sender: In the throes of an Equestrian sex shortage, Cadance breaks into the bedroom of two retired Wonderbolts to get a good whiff of that delicious spent semen smell.
Lover. Bake. Cupcake: It was the fucking bird bath. We can all go home now.
When Pinkiean Knots Collide: Officer Shining Armor arrests Rainbow Dash for making out with his sister. Dash desperately tries to explain that Twilight wanted it.
Bon Contingency: Vinyl Scratch wonders why Octavia doesn't come back for her toothbrush, unaware that she has simply bought a new disposable headpiece from the manufacturer.
Shepherdess Handling a Cupcake: On a whim, Luna asks a flustered Fluttershy to craft a dream for her in which she is "shipped." We're going to have to skip the dream Fluttershy creates, due to rating. Really.
Due to unfortunate circumstances that have recently developed, I think if I talk in the Discord server, I owe Coffee a quarter. Or a soda, or an icecream, or something. So I'm just gonna do some more Mashups instead.
It's No Sender: In the throes of an Equestrian sex shortage, Cadance breaks into the bedroom of two retired Wonderbolts to get a good whiff of that delicious spent semen smell.
Lover. Bake. Cupcake: It was the fucking bird bath. We can all go home now.
When Pinkiean Knots Collide: Officer Shining Armor arrests Rainbow Dash for making out with his sister. Dash desperately tries to explain that Twilight wanted it.
Bon Contingency: Vinyl Scratch wonders why Octavia doesn't come back for her toothbrush, unaware that she has simply bought a new disposable headpiece from the manufacturer.
Shepherdess Handling a Cupcake: On a whim, Luna asks a flustered Fluttershy to craft a dream for her in which she is "shipped." We're going to have to skip the dream Fluttershy creates, due to rating. Really.
>>Bachiavellian
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/190/373/131942790061.jpg
I'm not exactly cozy with it yet
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/190/373/131942790061.jpg
This one is in want of more artistic talent (keep drawing!!!), but the composition is quite interesting. Use of the bottle to contain the reflections of the other characters well-illustrates how they live within her imagination more than reality through most of the story.
The excessive space on the edges is likely due to the artist's insecurity with their own work, but it also works compositionally in this case due to the nature of the story and how the mane character is alone and isolated. However, I think the bottle would be better positioned if it were horizontally aligned with a golden section rather than right in the middle (vertical is already perfect).
The excessive space on the edges is likely due to the artist's insecurity with their own work, but it also works compositionally in this case due to the nature of the story and how the mane character is alone and isolated. However, I think the bottle would be better positioned if it were horizontally aligned with a golden section rather than right in the middle (vertical is already perfect).
This is pleasant to the eye, but I'm not sure it embodies the story as much as it could. The butterfly is an easy synechdoche for Fluttershy's ability being almost-perfect, which is more of an issue I have with the story than something I admired about it.
That said, it hit me right in the feels...
Rest in peace, mythrilmoth.
That said, it hit me right in the feels...
Rest in peace, mythrilmoth.
I like the abstract join of unrelated contour: her ear flows into her mane, her mane flows into her wing. Normally those are a bad idea but they work with the abstraction of this piece.
The butterfly is difficult to notice at first, and I think it would work better were it striking to behold. It's the focal point but you can't see it immediately, which is not what you want.
I don't like the discord between the fog style and the contour drawing in the fore. It would be better to me if you had stuck with contour drawing. As it is, the background seems very disconnected. The abstraction isn't bad, but the thick shapes without line are distracting.
Like Fluttershy, I hate it when I get my long hair stuck in my nostril.
The butterfly is difficult to notice at first, and I think it would work better were it striking to behold. It's the focal point but you can't see it immediately, which is not what you want.
I don't like the discord between the fog style and the contour drawing in the fore. It would be better to me if you had stuck with contour drawing. As it is, the background seems very disconnected. The abstraction isn't bad, but the thick shapes without line are distracting.
Like Fluttershy, I hate it when I get my long hair stuck in my nostril.
This is a story that speaks to me on a very personal level and does a fantastic job of expressing how social anxiety feels, at least to me. That's part of the reason it's resting at the very top of my list, but it's also there because of the very good quality of the writing, descriptions, and a pace that feels steady even as it skips forward in time. It doesn't seem like a word of this is wasted, either in describing what Birchbud is going through, or in giving us a better idea of her voice.
I do think that if it's going to be published, it needs to definitively say that Birchbud is coming out of her shell at the end, or show us that. While you can definitely assume that, it's just not explicitly shown. It's fine to end without the actual action take place, as long as we get some signal, even if that's just mentioning her nagging self-doubt is finally silent, or if she at least takes the action to more defiantly ignore it.
I do think that if it's going to be published, it needs to definitively say that Birchbud is coming out of her shell at the end, or show us that. While you can definitely assume that, it's just not explicitly shown. It's fine to end without the actual action take place, as long as we get some signal, even if that's just mentioning her nagging self-doubt is finally silent, or if she at least takes the action to more defiantly ignore it.
Amazing comedy that flows surprisingly well. Even if the joke doesn't land (and for me, I don't think a single one didn't) it's going straight into the next one, which is an important goal when you're trying to do a crackfic like this. I'll agree with Bachiavellian and say that this could definitely be expanded to add a few more jokes in the second and third scenes, and maybe even more scenes as well.
I'm not gonna touch into the conversations that have gone back and forth, mostly because I really don't want to try and relate my review to what a lot of other people have said (and I've not read).
I really like what is going on here on a certain level. The basic is that we have a "What Are You in the Dark" story, where are hero, Cadance, has access to sight of the likely literal strands of fate, and a seemingly powerful voice in her head directing her on her mission. What Cadance is, in the dark, is not good. I think that's interesting and that last line becomes much more grim with how casually she treats it.
That said, I do think as a minific that this is going for a little too much. This idea could be great to do a longer story on, and get more into what the voice is, what its purpose is, and to show Cadance try things other than this ultimate, final solution to try and woo Shining Armor. We could even see her renege on it if she comes to doubt that she made the right choice.
I do think there's some good writing in here, and I like the scenario as a whole, I just think its scope is so far beyond a minific.
I really like what is going on here on a certain level. The basic is that we have a "What Are You in the Dark" story, where are hero, Cadance, has access to sight of the likely literal strands of fate, and a seemingly powerful voice in her head directing her on her mission. What Cadance is, in the dark, is not good. I think that's interesting and that last line becomes much more grim with how casually she treats it.
That said, I do think as a minific that this is going for a little too much. This idea could be great to do a longer story on, and get more into what the voice is, what its purpose is, and to show Cadance try things other than this ultimate, final solution to try and woo Shining Armor. We could even see her renege on it if she comes to doubt that she made the right choice.
I do think there's some good writing in here, and I like the scenario as a whole, I just think its scope is so far beyond a minific.
This makes excellent use of audience expectations to provide a slow reveal to something bigger, and I think it lands very well. The prose here is wonderfully and simply written and I think the ending is fairly sweet despite the very emotional tug it has.
I think the themes are the strongest part of this fic, and you've got an excellent little slice of mid-life crisis cooking here. I could see it being expanded to something much bigger, or simply being left as it is. While there's nothing at stake and no real growth or change, it still gives insight into a perspective that we might all experience at some point.
Now that I think of it, expansion into something longer that tackles how to deal with that feeling may be the best path to pursue with this.
Now that I think of it, expansion into something longer that tackles how to deal with that feeling may be the best path to pursue with this.
This is a fantastic premise that I'm curious if the show plans to cover in the coming episodes. I think the pacing here is very good, and the descriptions of dreamlike sequences and imperfections is well-done. It takes a lot to create something someone can get lost in while asleep, and sometimes hold on to when they awake, so it makes sense that it would need to be perfect. That said, I do think there is some fogginess on what it is that Luna's criteria are. My assumption is a willingness to learn, a natural aptitude and empathy. Fluttershy certainly has the former and latter in spades, and you do a good job of showcasing the third in the fic proper.
All of that said, the connection to the prompt is fairly weak, but that certainly didn't harm my enjoyment of it.
All of that said, the connection to the prompt is fairly weak, but that certainly didn't harm my enjoyment of it.
I wish that I knew music as lovingly as you seem to write it. I think an understanding would grow my fondness for this fic a lot more. That said, I think you've got a wonderful hook here and lovely ending, with a middle that could do some more service to the premise than it does.
An amazing job of describing a single moment in a lot of detail, painting a clear picture. That said, while the prose is a little purple, I think it's in good service to setting the scene before the one, final big action takes place. I'll agree with what >>CoffeeMinion said that going for an extension of the event far into the future is a bit much given the length of the fic. As it stands, without that line of "years of love and laughter in the future," you've got a fantastic start to a longer fic that could deal with the aftermath of a comedic accidental kiss, rather than a painting of the start to what we understand to be a long and fruitful relationship.
I think you have a fantastic setup to the first punchline before the dive off into meta-commentary. A fun little comedic piece that I think needs a few editing touches to polish it up.
I like the comedy on display here, and funny enough I watched the EqG shorts that dealt with Pinkie working at a diner and shipping up guests on the regular after my initial reading, so I get a bit more enjoyment on the re-read. That said, I will agree the resolution of the actual people being shipped here is a bit quick, and seeing them walk away simply amicable would be a bit stronger, providing some juxtaposition between their neutral attitude about things with Pinkie's rather bold certainty that they'll end up romantically involved somewhere down the line.
Perhaps a series of scenes where they keep coming back, still not together, and Pinkie gets more insistent and serious than she already was? Just a thought.
Anyhow, loved Pinkie's dialogue and mannerisms contrasted with Shining's reaction to the whole thing.
Perhaps a series of scenes where they keep coming back, still not together, and Pinkie gets more insistent and serious than she already was? Just a thought.
Anyhow, loved Pinkie's dialogue and mannerisms contrasted with Shining's reaction to the whole thing.
I like a lot of the descriptions here and the back and forth dialogue between Post and Luna, but I do agree some of the gags aren't leaving me laughing, just amused. I think there needs to be just a bit more work put in to the jokes to take this from cute to comedic.
I like the descriptions of each of the mane six's individual scenes, and that Fluttershy line is gold, but I have to agree with others that the ending falls a bit flat. With a little more expansion and maybe showing the aftermath of each of these romantic predicaments, you could have a much stronger comedy on your hands that it already is.
I think the strength of the mystery here would be heightened if instead of listing what the mane six thought, you wrote about what they said to others. This leaves it open-ended that one of them is simply lying about the fact that it totally isn't them out of an attempt at modesty or subterfuge. That said, very cute fic, and fantastic job pushing it to 750 words so that you had to cut off the identity.
Pulling awfully hard at those heartstrings, but it feels a bit manipulative by not giving us room to relax from those emotional gutpunches, especially when you combine one tragedy with another. Consider spacing things out a bit more and adding some extra onto this and I could see the premise having a better execution than it currently does.
This is a nice bit of character work and conversation that we obviously couldn't see in the show. Still, it feels fairly natural, especially given everyone's reaction to actually talking about the horizontal tango (actually, is it naturally more perpendicular for ponies? ... actually lets not get into that.) Solid piece, author.
It's never a good sign for self-esteem when you're prepping for your retro and you have to start with an apology.
(no, I didn't write that one)
(no, I didn't write that one)
Surprisingly, I really liked this one. The prose and characterization is absolutely spot on. This one is going pretty high on my slate.
For the first three paragraphs, I wasn't sure if this was about a death or a breakup. The ambiguity sets up a nice payoff of conflicting emotions--the relief that Octavia's still alive paired directly with Vinyl's grief and anger. The shift in tone felt very real to me. This is a good short study in the ways people can hold strong and seemingly contradictory feelings for their loved ones.
Most minifics I read here would benefit from more words to breathe, but this letter format and your execution work well within the confines of the word count. It seems in keeping with Vinyl's character that she would write sparsely and to the point, but in words that pack a powerful punch.
And I'm kind of okay with not knowing why Octavia's gone. Vinyl doesn't know--at least, she claims she doesn't know (big unreliable narrator energy), which does leave us with all sorts of unanswered questions. I would read a story that sets out to pursue some of those answers, and I think it would give us a fairer view of both Octavia and Vinyl. But this piece works for me as a glimpse of a moment in Vinyl's life, complete with all her confusion and despair.
Most minifics I read here would benefit from more words to breathe, but this letter format and your execution work well within the confines of the word count. It seems in keeping with Vinyl's character that she would write sparsely and to the point, but in words that pack a powerful punch.
And I'm kind of okay with not knowing why Octavia's gone. Vinyl doesn't know--at least, she claims she doesn't know (big unreliable narrator energy), which does leave us with all sorts of unanswered questions. I would read a story that sets out to pursue some of those answers, and I think it would give us a fairer view of both Octavia and Vinyl. But this piece works for me as a glimpse of a moment in Vinyl's life, complete with all her confusion and despair.
This is cute and it gave me a chuckle. I don't have much constructive criticism to add, but >>Trick_Question put into words much of what I was thinking as I read about Luna's understanding of "shipping."
The dialogue here is well-paced, and Pinkie's voice comes through clearly--it's always good when I can easily hear the character in my head delivering the lines.
That said, her voice doesn't need to be quite as dominant as it is here. Maybe there could be a bit where Pinkie asks Shining to just *watch* the interactions of the two girls (because, y'know, more extreme awkwardness is exactly what Shining needs in this story.) There are lots of good suggestions here for how you might show the potential for romance between the two. Unless this is really about Pinkie just forming wild unfounded schemes. Which is also fine.
Shining makes a good straight man with comedic value of his own. All in all, a solid effort!
That said, her voice doesn't need to be quite as dominant as it is here. Maybe there could be a bit where Pinkie asks Shining to just *watch* the interactions of the two girls (because, y'know, more extreme awkwardness is exactly what Shining needs in this story.) There are lots of good suggestions here for how you might show the potential for romance between the two. Unless this is really about Pinkie just forming wild unfounded schemes. Which is also fine.
Shining makes a good straight man with comedic value of his own. All in all, a solid effort!
This works for me foremost as a character vignette: by the end I feel like I understand a lot about Lug Nut's personality and the way his mind works. I also feel like I am definitely reading Truth In Fiction, and it is a scary thought, so--well done.
I had some of the same trouble with language and word choices that other readers have mentioned. Specifically, I'd appreciate a little more rhythmic variation and different sentence lengths. Most of what's here is on the longer side, and it can get convoluted at times. I think the general approach suits the intention, though. It's a good idea for a comedic sketch--I actually started to imagine the text as narration for a film short, and it really worked.
I had some of the same trouble with language and word choices that other readers have mentioned. Specifically, I'd appreciate a little more rhythmic variation and different sentence lengths. Most of what's here is on the longer side, and it can get convoluted at times. I think the general approach suits the intention, though. It's a good idea for a comedic sketch--I actually started to imagine the text as narration for a film short, and it really worked.
I really dig this, in no small part because I feel a kinship with the use of "Fluttershy is good at dreams" concept, but mostly because it's extraordinarily well composed. I was interested at the very first line and absolutely hooked by the time Dash got dusted; that description evoked a bit of Douglas Adams imagery in my mind, so extra credit for that, too.
Even in a round full of strong, emotionally charged contenders, this stands out as a top-tier entry. It's clean and tight through and through.
Even in a round full of strong, emotionally charged contenders, this stands out as a top-tier entry. It's clean and tight through and through.
Popping in real quick while I'm going through everything else to apologize to the author real quick. While I am absolutely on board the "don't take my Derpy, you villains" train, she's clearly and unambiguously called Ditzy here and I should have respected that fact when commenting previously.
I will not try to hide my shame, and simply say: Sorry.
I will not try to hide my shame, and simply say: Sorry.
There are two lines here I want to point out which do some real heavy lifting:
She says this, which is high praise for somepony whose been at the game for a long time, and then immediately throws it away with another plea for Octavia to come back. That speaks volumes about how much she values that friendship, especially when paired with the general mess that is her every day life now. It also subverts a bit of "tortured artist" trope, since she's legitimately willing to be happy again, but can't without compromising her integrity.
This stings, hard, and I can't believe nobody else pointed it out. Octavia is completely within hoof's reach by the sound of it. She's not off in some distant city dealing with things. She's just across town, like she was on a grocery run or something. And Vinyl, bless her heart, has still managed to avoid her for an entire year. What a trooper.
I'm a fan of little lines doing big work, especially in mini rounds, and you tickled that fancy well among the rest of the very-Vinyl writing.
They say my music's better than it's ever been.
She says this, which is high praise for somepony whose been at the game for a long time, and then immediately throws it away with another plea for Octavia to come back. That speaks volumes about how much she values that friendship, especially when paired with the general mess that is her every day life now. It also subverts a bit of "tortured artist" trope, since she's legitimately willing to be happy again, but can't without compromising her integrity.
I've been avoiding your street, I'll have you know.
This stings, hard, and I can't believe nobody else pointed it out. Octavia is completely within hoof's reach by the sound of it. She's not off in some distant city dealing with things. She's just across town, like she was on a grocery run or something. And Vinyl, bless her heart, has still managed to avoid her for an entire year. What a trooper.
I'm a fan of little lines doing big work, especially in mini rounds, and you tickled that fancy well among the rest of the very-Vinyl writing.
It's well established in the WriteOff lore that I am absolutely musically illiterate. And yet...
And yet.
I followed this from start to finish like I had a hook in my mouth. I don't understand the technical notey bits, but Octavia's love for her music is crystal clear, and the steps she takes to scream "find me, see me, understand me" as quietly as she possibly can resound like a church bell.
I have heard no colors, but I know this rainbow is beautiful all the same.
And yet.
I followed this from start to finish like I had a hook in my mouth. I don't understand the technical notey bits, but Octavia's love for her music is crystal clear, and the steps she takes to scream "find me, see me, understand me" as quietly as she possibly can resound like a church bell.
I have heard no colors, but I know this rainbow is beautiful all the same.
“Exactly! This sex shortage is a threat that I will not take lying down.”
It occurs to me that an increase in "lying down" is exactly the solution to this problem, but I digress.
I agree that Cady is a bit over the top here, but the physical comedy is super on point all the way through so it doesn't really bother me at all. Twilight's an obvious choice for the straight mare, but having Chryssalis point out that what Cady is asking for is a little nuts and then just rolling with it is the icing on the cake.
Okay I'm tired and I knew I shouldn't have procrastinated so much, but one last congratulations to everybody this round. Lots of high quality entries, and many, many difficult ranking decisions. We did great work this week and everybody should be proud of themselves and each other no matter where the chips fall in an hour and a half.
You're all lovely.
You're all lovely.
So as much as it's not a great look if this turns out to be my only real comment this round, but mainly because I see a lot of other people lamenting that they don't know enough music theory to interpret the musibabble—I do, at least terminology-wise. The progression as described is ambiguous, but interpreting it as riffing in minor pentatonic over major seventh dominant seventh (Edit: I really should have been more awake) chords, you could get some basic jazz/blues style out of it. I'm imagining cello over guitar in Octavia's mind, and synth lead over pads in Vinyl's.
I actually found it immersion-breaking just because the way it's described in the story doesn't… feel like how I imagine most musicians operating? If absolute pitch sense were a given for ponies with musical cutie marks, that would cover some of the distance, and if the cultural context made art a lot more conservative (which doesn't jibe with the feel of canon for me), that would cover some more, but I can't imagine that sequence being all that special at least the way I want to hear it; it's just a bluesy I–IV opening!
I'll be very curious to see what the author says about it and whether they actually meant something else.
I actually found it immersion-breaking just because the way it's described in the story doesn't… feel like how I imagine most musicians operating? If absolute pitch sense were a given for ponies with musical cutie marks, that would cover some of the distance, and if the cultural context made art a lot more conservative (which doesn't jibe with the feel of canon for me), that would cover some more, but I can't imagine that sequence being all that special at least the way I want to hear it; it's just a bluesy I–IV opening!
I'll be very curious to see what the author says about it and whether they actually meant something else.
Thank you so much for drawing this, artist. It's gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous. I think it's easy when drawing a butterfly to just kinda do some random bullshit, but you really gave this one a sense that the creature's design is blooming outwards from its body. I really dig this.
I also see what you did there, drawing half of the butterfly and then mirroring it. That's a kind of efficiency that I can seriously get behind.
I also see what you did there, drawing half of the butterfly and then mirroring it. That's a kind of efficiency that I can seriously get behind.
I love this so desperately. Fluttershy looks great, the dreaminess is so on-point here; even the background-blurriness of the... background lends a sort of dreamy effect to the piece, while still letting me see what's back there. And this may not be the most insightful art critique I'll ever write, but I love the colour you chose for the pond.
Artist, whoever you are, thanks a lot for drawing this. Based on where I plan to take this story, it's a little spoilery to use as a cover art, but I'm going to try my best to find a place to use it amongst the text.
Also, it's my headcanon that the mouseover text is a continuation of what Fluttershy says in the title.
Artist, whoever you are, thanks a lot for drawing this. Based on where I plan to take this story, it's a little spoilery to use as a cover art, but I'm going to try my best to find a place to use it amongst the text.
Also, it's my headcanon that the mouseover text is a continuation of what Fluttershy says in the title.
Oh, I'm sorry, Princess Luna. Did I crush this dream so hard that you decided to ding me for not fucking shading it?
The ideas on display here are so great, and the feeling of watchful isolation comes across exceedingly well. The only suggestions I could make would be to maybe give the railing some solid lines, and to give the beach and the water a bit more of an "interface"--make the water look wetter the closer it is to the tide.
Thank you for submitting!!
Thank you for submitting!!
Thanks so much, everyone. This round has always been the toughest for me, so it's wonderful to finally achieve what I was going for, and have people enjoy what I submitted.
I have some replies, but as a tl;dr: Yes, I cut out pretty much everything that would have solved everybody's issues.
Oops.
>>Trick_Question
Thank you! I promise you I am not aware
Well, "wasted entirely" assumes a lot about what I was going for. It's more-so that the payoff just wasn't clear enough. I didn't set it up for nothing.
Luna's fear isn't hidden from the reader. She's terrified that whoever will replace her won't be a good fit, and that the dreamers of Equestria will suffer. Fluttershy's final line is her relaxing these fears, thus completing the exam.
I'll make it better dw.
Is that such a disappointment? The final version of this story will lean on it harder, so don't worry, but her being caring and kind is intended to be the whole reason. It's her whole M.O. and why she cares for animals, and it's what the title was alluding to.
This is a great point, and I'll definitely be expanding on this.
I mentioned in the discord that I wasn't super happy about either of my entries going into the round, and this was the big hang-up for me in this one. It was really just a factor of wordcount. Funnily enough, though, I don't think she was really all that amazing, though I understand why people got that idea. I totally get the suggestion to have her struggle more in the build-up, but when I expand this I'll be taking it in a different direction...
Thanks for all your comments, Trick! Really happy to see you back here.
>>GrandMoffPony
I've just had a look at my calendar and I can't quite swing yesterday. But hopefully over the next couple of weeks.
I'll respond here and send you a red bell when it's all finished :).
And thanks for participating! I hope we see you again in the coming rounds.
>>No_Raisin
It's funny, I was worried people were gonna think that was stereotypical with no actual back-up. Because I deleted the back-up. Honestly, the stuff I edited out could well be another 750 words.
Thanks for mentioning this; I'll have to be careful not to ruin it.
I've already said this in the discord, but yes, this was cut, and will all be reinstated in the full version. I like the part a lot, but to give it any wordcount would have robbed some of the final scene, and it would have been kind of jarring to shove it in since it takes place outside of the dreamworld.
>>KwirkyJ
Hey, something that I can't say was answered in the director's cut! This is a very good point, and something I'll be keeping in mind. Thanks for commenting!
>>CoffeeMinion
This is the most accurate take in the entire thread. There were so many calculated risks going on that I was worried it would be too many. Thanks for leaving this comment, Coffee; I'm so glad you enjoyed. And it's great to have you back!
>>Baal Bunny
Right?? :D A few people seemed to be giving me credit for coming up with this idea when it was introduced in the show. Silly bronies not being caught up and such! Next short story round maybe I'll just submit a written re-telling of a Season Nine episode and watch as people tell me how brilliant and creative I am. Why, I should submit my resume to Hasbro.
This is a great suggestion and I hope it's okay that I'm not going to take it. :) I have a story to tell with their absences that I hope will give more stakes to Luna's mission.
Stop me if you've heard this before, but this got cut for length. I wanted more of the story to be some very light shipping of these two (I only really go light, anyways), and it encouraged me to make the final scene as tender as possible. But yeah, it's obviously not as strong a connection as any of the other stories.
Also, I don't think I would have come up with the title if it didn't sound similar to the prompt. So there's that?
Thanks for your thoughts, Mike! Appreciated as always.
>>Bachiavellian
It's funny, when you cut so much out of a story, you read it and all you can see is what's missing, And that makes it read way too goddamn fast. I'm glad to hear the pacing worked for you, because I can't read it without feeling like I should be easing on the brakes.
Hopefully the pacing is still good in the final product. Thanks, Bachi!
>>Flashgen
I've looked ahead at the synopses for the remaining episodes and it looks like they're only planning on answering this, if at all, during the finale(s).
So I'd better step on it.
Thank you for your comment!
>>Rao
Real talk, I was going for Thanos.
You're the best, Rao. And again, I hope the kerfuffle surrounding your entry didn't hinder your experience this round (or maybe it was even helpful in some way). Congrats on the bronze!!
Thanks again and bye bye!
I have some replies, but as a tl;dr: Yes, I cut out pretty much everything that would have solved everybody's issues.
Oops.
>>Trick_Question
This is beautifully written (as you are no doubt aware), and the story is good.
Thank you! I promise you I am not aware
I'm disappointed that you built up excellent suspense, then wasted it entirely. If failure to sense Luna's fear is disqualifying, and Rainbow Dash entered the dream with instructions to do so, I expected Fluttershy to have the same instructions.
Well, "wasted entirely" assumes a lot about what I was going for. It's more-so that the payoff just wasn't clear enough. I didn't set it up for nothing.
Luna's fear isn't hidden from the reader. She's terrified that whoever will replace her won't be a good fit, and that the dreamers of Equestria will suffer. Fluttershy's final line is her relaxing these fears, thus completing the exam.
I'll make it better dw.
It's obvious why Dash and Pinkie are interested, but I'm uncertain why Fluttershy would want to do this apart from general altruism toward ponies
Is that such a disappointment? The final version of this story will lean on it harder, so don't worry, but her being caring and kind is intended to be the whole reason. It's her whole M.O. and why she cares for animals, and it's what the title was alluding to.
I'd expect her to be the least willing pony to confront nightmares because she's the most fearful.
This is a great point, and I'll definitely be expanding on this.
I'm also left wondering why Fluttershy is nearly perfect at what is obviously a very difficult task.
I mentioned in the discord that I wasn't super happy about either of my entries going into the round, and this was the big hang-up for me in this one. It was really just a factor of wordcount. Funnily enough, though, I don't think she was really all that amazing, though I understand why people got that idea. I totally get the suggestion to have her struggle more in the build-up, but when I expand this I'll be taking it in a different direction...
Thanks for all your comments, Trick! Really happy to see you back here.
>>GrandMoffPony
This needs to be expanded and posted to Fimfic yesterday.
I've just had a look at my calendar and I can't quite swing yesterday. But hopefully over the next couple of weeks.
I'll respond here and send you a red bell when it's all finished :).
And thanks for participating! I hope we see you again in the coming rounds.
>>No_Raisin
I love how this starts out with Dash utterly failing at meeting Luna's expectations, complete with making posters of herself in the dream; god, she's such a narcissist.
It's funny, I was worried people were gonna think that was stereotypical with no actual back-up. Because I deleted the back-up. Honestly, the stuff I edited out could well be another 750 words.
I like how the text never explicitly says this, but Fluttershy understands something about dreamwalking (and by extension Luna) that Dash and Pinkie don't.
Thanks for mentioning this; I'll have to be careful not to ruin it.
Dash and Pinkie seemed to be chosen at random (actually, why were they candidates), and then there's Fluttershy. Luna said that there were three candidates, but we're never given a reason for why not all six of the Elements are applying for the job.
I've already said this in the discord, but yes, this was cut, and will all be reinstated in the full version. I like the part a lot, but to give it any wordcount would have robbed some of the final scene, and it would have been kind of jarring to shove it in since it takes place outside of the dreamworld.
>>KwirkyJ
the distinction more valuable if they are to replace/supplement Luna as a dream guardian for other ponies, rather than a guardian for Luna exclusively.
Hey, something that I can't say was answered in the director's cut! This is a very good point, and something I'll be keeping in mind. Thanks for commenting!
>>CoffeeMinion
However, for me anyway, I feel like that represents the Author taking a calculated risk with trusting the readers to fill in the blanks with our knowledge of canon characters and their characterization.
This is the most accurate take in the entire thread. There were so many calculated risks going on that I was worried it would be too many. Thanks for leaving this comment, Coffee; I'm so glad you enjoyed. And it's great to have you back!
>>Baal Bunny
I love how this expands on that one line of Rainbow's from the Season Nine opener when she calls dibs on taking over as Dreamwalker after Luna retires.
Right?? :D A few people seemed to be giving me credit for coming up with this idea when it was introduced in the show. Silly bronies not being caught up and such! Next short story round maybe I'll just submit a written re-telling of a Season Nine episode and watch as people tell me how brilliant and creative I am. Why, I should submit my resume to Hasbro.
I'd suggest adding more to the middle when expanding this for FimFic by having Rarity and AJ audition as well and gradually show us that the real problem of the story is that Luna doesn't want to retire.
This is a great suggestion and I hope it's okay that I'm not going to take it. :) I have a story to tell with their absences that I hope will give more stakes to Luna's mission.
I'll also mention that I don't really see a connection to the prompt here
Stop me if you've heard this before, but this got cut for length. I wanted more of the story to be some very light shipping of these two (I only really go light, anyways), and it encouraged me to make the final scene as tender as possible. But yeah, it's obviously not as strong a connection as any of the other stories.
Also, I don't think I would have come up with the title if it didn't sound similar to the prompt. So there's that?
Thanks for your thoughts, Mike! Appreciated as always.
>>Bachiavellian
I really like how you handle pacing and flow, here. You start and end each scene exactly where they need, and you deliver information at exactly the right places to develop the stakes of the story.
It's funny, when you cut so much out of a story, you read it and all you can see is what's missing, And that makes it read way too goddamn fast. I'm glad to hear the pacing worked for you, because I can't read it without feeling like I should be easing on the brakes.
Hopefully the pacing is still good in the final product. Thanks, Bachi!
>>Flashgen
This is a fantastic premise that I'm curious if the show plans to cover in the coming episodes.
I've looked ahead at the synopses for the remaining episodes and it looks like they're only planning on answering this, if at all, during the finale(s).
So I'd better step on it.
Thank you for your comment!
>>Rao
the time Dash got dusted; that description evoked a bit of Douglas Adams imagery in my mind, so extra credit for that, too.
Real talk, I was going for Thanos.
Even in a round full of strong, emotionally charged contenders, this stands out as a top-tier entry. It's clean and tight through and through.
You're the best, Rao. And again, I hope the kerfuffle surrounding your entry didn't hinder your experience this round (or maybe it was even helpful in some way). Congrats on the bronze!!
Thanks again and bye bye!
UwU What's dis?
I guess something had to come in last.
This is the part where I talk about one of the entries I wrote. This is also the part where you go to read what you had written being read back to you. This is the part where...
>>Trick_Question
Yeh.
That was the idea, although, shocking news, readers don't like it when you lie to them.
This is something that can be definitely fixed by having the characters talk about their speculations, as opposed to the narrator telling the reading what these horses are thinking.
I think there's a time and place for "telling" a story, but this was not one of them. There are near-endless possibilities for getting ponies' perspectives on the mystery, and this being a minific greatly limits that.
I regret nothing. RariDash 4 life, my homie.
>>KwirkyJ
It's a tricky thing, because I really want the story (or the humor anyway) to come from characters speculating over Dash's love life, and not Dash's love life itself. How do you make an anti-mystery compelling? How do you simultaneously satisfy and dissatisfy the reader on purpose.
I like to imagine Pinkie as being polyamorous, so if you wanna guess which Pinkie-centered fic is mine in a future round...
The "exclusion of Dash" part was deliberate, although the shift from showing to telling was not. I want to revise this story so as to be consistently showy, ya dig?
>>CoffeeMinion
I've got an idea. Make the story circular so that it starts off with us firmly planted in Dash's shoes, then go back around to us reading from her visceral perspective after the interview sessions with the speculators. Because that's basically what the section with the other ponies would be like.
>>Posh
Kinda reductive, innit? I literally wrote a list for one of my entries once upon a time and Pasco considered that a story, so maybe we just have different definitions for the word.
The problem is that it's an anti-mystery. The reader is discouraged from getting invested in the mystery itself, but not to such a degree that it's obvious that you're not to supposed to take it seriously. It's a comedy, sure, but currently it's dry enough that someone can easily confuse the ultimate joke for failed suspense.
>>Anonymous Potato
The idea that Dash is intensely private about her love life is not so vividly expressed here. My internal reasoning for this is that Dash is one of thosepeople ponies who doesn't like to be affectionate in public, which is kinda true in-show? But of course we've never seen her like that in a romantic context.
>>Flashgen
Yeh.
Well, anyway, I don't feel the need to reply to all these comments. The lads came up some very useful criticisms, so if you're not explicitly mentioned in this retro, don't take it personally. It's just that we can generally agree on what went wrong here, and I already have an idea on how to fix things.
I guess something had to come in last.
This is the part where I talk about one of the entries I wrote. This is also the part where you go to read what you had written being read back to you. This is the part where...
>>Trick_Question
Author, you are terrible.
Yeh.
I had no reason to wonder who Rainbow was dating, and no clues were provided
That was the idea, although, shocking news, readers don't like it when you lie to them.
Her friends didn't seem to be wondering or trying to figure it out, they just decided on who they thought it was and that was that.
This is something that can be definitely fixed by having the characters talk about their speculations, as opposed to the narrator telling the reading what these horses are thinking.
Either way, you're trying to spin a tale that doesn't fit into 750 words without being extremely telly. I realize the payoff doesn't depend on the telliness, but it would still be better with more horse words and removing some of the explicit qualifications of Dash and the others.
I think there's a time and place for "telling" a story, but this was not one of them. There are near-endless possibilities for getting ponies' perspectives on the mystery, and this being a minific greatly limits that.
This must be a very unsubtle jab at AppleDash shippers.
I regret nothing. RariDash 4 life, my homie.
>>KwirkyJ
Pinkie (and the whole of Ponyville) seems deeply invested in the mystery identity of Rainbow's interest, but I can't say I ever was; this makes it very easy for me to forget this story.
It's a tricky thing, because I really want the story (or the humor anyway) to come from characters speculating over Dash's love life, and not Dash's love life itself. How do you make an anti-mystery compelling? How do you simultaneously satisfy and dissatisfy the reader on purpose.
Pinkie suggesting a harem was one of the more bizarre bits, I will admit.
I like to imagine Pinkie as being polyamorous, so if you wanna guess which Pinkie-centered fic is mine in a future round...
I question how necessary or effective the introduction is -- the focus begins on Dash, but then proceeds to diffuse to all of Ponyville to the exclusion of Dash.
The "exclusion of Dash" part was deliberate, although the shift from showing to telling was not. I want to revise this story so as to be consistently showy, ya dig?
>>CoffeeMinion
However, that part feels unbalanced because it’s so short. I think the rest of the story’s telly aspects wouldn’t stand out as much if we could drop into something more tangible (dare I say, perhaps even a bit sensual) at this moment.
I've got an idea. Make the story circular so that it starts off with us firmly planted in Dash's shoes, then go back around to us reading from her visceral perspective after the interview sessions with the speculators. Because that's basically what the section with the other ponies would be like.
>>Posh
But I also don't think there's a story here, though.
Kinda reductive, innit? I literally wrote a list for one of my entries once upon a time and Pasco considered that a story, so maybe we just have different definitions for the word.
I don't think there's a point to the mystery, because there's no resolution to it, or even breadcrumbs from which the reader can infer an answer.
The problem is that it's an anti-mystery. The reader is discouraged from getting invested in the mystery itself, but not to such a degree that it's obvious that you're not to supposed to take it seriously. It's a comedy, sure, but currently it's dry enough that someone can easily confuse the ultimate joke for failed suspense.
>>Anonymous Potato
But if I may ask: why exactly is it so bad for Dash that Pinkie, and everypony else, know that she's dating?
The idea that Dash is intensely private about her love life is not so vividly expressed here. My internal reasoning for this is that Dash is one of those
>>Flashgen
I think the strength of the mystery here would be heightened if instead of listing what the mane six thought, you wrote about what they said to others.
Yeh.
Well, anyway, I don't feel the need to reply to all these comments. The lads came up some very useful criticisms, so if you're not explicitly mentioned in this retro, don't take it personally. It's just that we can generally agree on what went wrong here, and I already have an idea on how to fix things.
>>Miller Minus
My suggestions:
Are as ubiquitous and useful as kudzu... :)
I don't know how other people feel, but I always like it when folks give suggestions on my stuff. If it's something I've thought of and decided not to use, I can just nod and move on, and if it's something I haven't thought of, it gives me something to think about. If anyone finds it annoying, though, please let me know!
Mike
My suggestions:
Are as ubiquitous and useful as kudzu... :)
I don't know how other people feel, but I always like it when folks give suggestions on my stuff. If it's something I've thought of and decided not to use, I can just nod and move on, and if it's something I haven't thought of, it gives me something to think about. If anyone finds it annoying, though, please let me know!
Mike
>>Baal Bunny
No, no, suggest away. I have the exact same mindset as you; I just wanted to let you know that I still think the suggestion is great. Again, thank you for lending me your thoughts.
No, no, suggest away. I have the exact same mindset as you; I just wanted to let you know that I still think the suggestion is great. Again, thank you for lending me your thoughts.
>>GrandMoffPony
>>No_Raisin
>>Anon Y Mous
>>Trick_Question
>>KwirkyJ
>>CoffeeMinion
>>KwirkyJ
>>WritingSpirit
>>Bachiavellian
>>Posh
>>Flashgen
Congrats to our medalists:
And sorry I didn't get to commenting on all the stories again. Everyone else pretty much brought up what I was gonna say, though.
As for mine, thanks for the comments. I'm determined to earn every spot from first to last during the course of these contests, and I'm still looking to score second-to-last if anyone wants to change their vote... :)
But, yeah, my intention was a straight up "slice of life" scene with all six of Our Heroines reacting to the news of Starlight and Trixie's upcoming nuptials by giving their reasons why they would never be involved in a romantic relationship. That's where the title came from: no shipping here.
The characters wouldn't cooperate with that, though. So I switched to Dash and Pinkie already "on the scene," Rarity and AJ not there but planning on it, and Fluttershy and Twilight never going there, Shy 'cause she shares my asexuality and Twi 'cause she's the Princess of Friendship. And as all "rom-coms" have taught us, romance turns friendship into something else. So not only can Twi never have a romantic relationship, even her talking about the subject creates a magical uneasiness in anypony listening.
I still think I can get that across with some more work--like I always say, Writeoffs are pretty much first-draft contests for me--and it might be fun to take things on from here, maybe have Shy and Twi fall into some sort of non-sexual romantic relationship that they don't understand any more than their friends do. We'll see what happens, I guess.
Thanks again!
Mike
>>No_Raisin
>>Anon Y Mous
>>Trick_Question
>>KwirkyJ
>>CoffeeMinion
>>KwirkyJ
>>WritingSpirit
>>Bachiavellian
>>Posh
>>Flashgen
Congrats to our medalists:
And sorry I didn't get to commenting on all the stories again. Everyone else pretty much brought up what I was gonna say, though.
As for mine, thanks for the comments. I'm determined to earn every spot from first to last during the course of these contests, and I'm still looking to score second-to-last if anyone wants to change their vote... :)
But, yeah, my intention was a straight up "slice of life" scene with all six of Our Heroines reacting to the news of Starlight and Trixie's upcoming nuptials by giving their reasons why they would never be involved in a romantic relationship. That's where the title came from: no shipping here.
The characters wouldn't cooperate with that, though. So I switched to Dash and Pinkie already "on the scene," Rarity and AJ not there but planning on it, and Fluttershy and Twilight never going there, Shy 'cause she shares my asexuality and Twi 'cause she's the Princess of Friendship. And as all "rom-coms" have taught us, romance turns friendship into something else. So not only can Twi never have a romantic relationship, even her talking about the subject creates a magical uneasiness in anypony listening.
I still think I can get that across with some more work--like I always say, Writeoffs are pretty much first-draft contests for me--and it might be fun to take things on from here, maybe have Shy and Twi fall into some sort of non-sexual romantic relationship that they don't understand any more than their friends do. We'll see what happens, I guess.
Thanks again!
Mike
>>No_Raisin
No. You're not telling a story. You're giving the backdrop to a story. Calling it as I see it.
Pasc once got into a knife-fight over what color Vinyl was. Let's keep perspective.
Kinda reductive, innit?
No. You're not telling a story. You're giving the backdrop to a story. Calling it as I see it.
Pasc once got into a knife-fight over what color Vinyl was. Let's keep perspective.
So, Bon Voyage... This was an end-of-the-day idea after several other concepts didn't pan out into workable stories, and it might show. Even this is not so much a "story" in the typical sense.
On the balance, it seems that this one achieved everything it was meant to. The lack of closure between Octavia and Vinyl is deliberate; the details suggest just enough of a history and context for the reader to believe that there is substance there, even if readers are craving more to hold on to; some or most readers were able to appreciate little pieces going a long way. To those wanting more closure with Octavia, I hear you, but this story is not meant to be so much about that -- I had hoped to make rather clear that the fight with Octavia is long done, and now the struggle is between Vinyl and herself. The opening paragraphs being ambiguous (did Octy die?) was very much intentional, and is consistent with the science on the psychology of loss and grief: it hurts no matter how the loved one left, and the loved one is still actively alive in one's memory. (The still alive in memory part is exacerbated with the knowledge that Octy is, in fact, elsewhere in the same town and possibly glimpsed on occasion in daily life.)
It is quite probable that this will be added as-is to my minific collection. If anything, the penultimate paragraph will be revised to better suggest what Vinyl is struggling with on a daily basis (versus this weird fixation on dinnertime?)
>>No_Raisin >>Baal Bunny >>Bachiavellian >>Trick_Question >>WritingSpirit >>WillowWren >>Rao
Thank you all for reading and commenting!
On the balance, it seems that this one achieved everything it was meant to. The lack of closure between Octavia and Vinyl is deliberate; the details suggest just enough of a history and context for the reader to believe that there is substance there, even if readers are craving more to hold on to; some or most readers were able to appreciate little pieces going a long way. To those wanting more closure with Octavia, I hear you, but this story is not meant to be so much about that -- I had hoped to make rather clear that the fight with Octavia is long done, and now the struggle is between Vinyl and herself. The opening paragraphs being ambiguous (did Octy die?) was very much intentional, and is consistent with the science on the psychology of loss and grief: it hurts no matter how the loved one left, and the loved one is still actively alive in one's memory. (The still alive in memory part is exacerbated with the knowledge that Octy is, in fact, elsewhere in the same town and possibly glimpsed on occasion in daily life.)
It is quite probable that this will be added as-is to my minific collection. If anything, the penultimate paragraph will be revised to better suggest what Vinyl is struggling with on a daily basis (versus this weird fixation on dinnertime?)
>>No_Raisin >>Baal Bunny >>Bachiavellian >>Trick_Question >>WritingSpirit >>WillowWren >>Rao
Thank you all for reading and commenting!
It’s No Retrospective
Friends, Romans, countrymen… it’s good to be back. :heart:
I’ve been away from the Writeoff for almost a year. During that time I finished writing & publishing a very long story, cleaned up & published several fics from past Writeoffs, put a book in the BronyCon Bookstore, and made it into the RCL. By some measures, it’s been a good year. But it’s also brought a fresh rebalancing of home, work, and creative life. Of the three, creativity is firmly on bottom right now. These things ebb and flow, and life’s not bad by any stretch, but I would’ve gladly spent more time here if the balance had worked out differently. Tl;dr: I missed you guys.
But let’s talk about this story. The inspiration for it came from a news item I heard on NPR recently. Yes, evidently there is a “sex shortage” out there, and there is concern in some quarters that this will lead to negative social consequences--including a smaller tax base! But while I can engage that on an intellectual level, let’s get real: you hafta giggle at the phrase “sex shortage.” It’s just something that sounds silly to my ear, regardless of its potential implications.
I also couldn’t help but take issue with the news item’s seeming use of sex as a proxy for more general interconnectedness in society. Like if the goal is connection, the prescription is sex? Ehhhh. Seemed like a thing ripe for skewering. And what better pony to skewer it with than a badly mischaracterized Princess of Love?
So that’s where this came from. That, and the desire to have a bit of silly fun with my glorious return to the Writeoff. The main thing I feared was that the story might not be absurd and over-the-top enough to make up for the intentional tear-down of Cadance and Shining. That was a Risk. But while it may not have medaled, it was great to see that it made people laugh. Thank you guys!
>>Bachiavellian
You have no idea how much this made me smile, so thank you! And yes, when I mentioned in the Discord chat that I was struggling against the word limit… well, there you go.
>>GrandMoffPony
This made me smile, too! Down with keyboards! ^^
>>No_Raisin
I’ve done this style of comedy before, and part of the joy for me is having the least likely people serving as the voice(s) of reason. Of course Twilight ends up standing out as the single most reasonable pony here, but I desperately wanted someone to give Cadance a direct callout on the flaws in her position, and having Chryssie do it makes me giggle. That’s also part of how I meant to signal to the audience that I knew what I was doing with this, and that all the over-the-top-ness was intentional.
>>Trick_Question
I can respect that this might not be everyone’s cup of tea. However, I enjoyed writing this too much to not write it, so boo. ^^
I think it might be funnier to end it with Cadance ordering Shiny to have sex with Chryssi.
OMG this is a hilarious idea, and I might have to steal it. Thank you!
>>KwirkyJ
I didn’t have time to set it up, but my thinking with the tea was that Cady can tolerate extremes in beverage temperature that non-Alicorns couldn’t. So in a similar vein, Celestia could drink a cup from a fresh pot of tea without needing to cool it down at all, because she’s got an esophagus of steel.
This is admittedly very deep headcanon, but just so you know, there was a mild amount of thought behind it. :-p
>>Zaid Val'Roa
This made me laugh so much! :-)
>>Posh
Boo, boo, Posh is a poo.
Naw, love ya Pantsu-chan. As with Trick, I’m okay if this ain’t everyone’s cup of tea. At least it made you laugh. Thanks for reading!
>>Flashgen
Thankee kindly! I will indeed expand at least the third scene. It was pretty dire trying to fit in the action-descriptions of their conversation happening in some swamp where Chryssie is hiding following the loss of her hive. The temptation was just to be like “SCENE: EXT., RANDOM STANK SWAMP” -- but I wasn’t gonna do that.
>>Rao
Hee hee, this guy gets it! Truly lovely!
Thanks again, everyone! I hope it’s not another year before I do this again.
Congrats to the winners!
As for me: this was by far my most coherent (and based on comments, well received) entry to date. And I still landed 3rd to last.
Maybe I need special handling to get into the top half, lol. xD
Until next time!
As for me: this was by far my most coherent (and based on comments, well received) entry to date. And I still landed 3rd to last.
Maybe I need special handling to get into the top half, lol. xD
Until next time!