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Whiieeeuh! Pffrrrbbh. Haierrmmurmphm.
<clop clop> mrruierhm <clop clop clop clop clop clop clop clop> pphfiereph.
Neeigghh wheeingnhm! <snort>.
<clop clop> mrruierhm <clop clop clop clop clop clop clop clop> pphfiereph.
Neeigghh wheeingnhm! <snort>.
>>GroaningGreyAgony
"That wasn't quite the answer I expected. See me after class, Snips," said Cheerilee. "Now my little ponies, could anyone try to tell us what is art? If possible, in an understandable way."
Silence fell. Every foals looked at each other, hoping to find some clues from the others to Miss Cheerilee's question.
"Come on students, don't be shy. I'm not expecting a full answer. Whatever you would say could be a start."
"It's hmm, it's beautiful?" tried Sweetie Belle.
"Not exactly but that's a good point. Art is, indeed, usually beautiful. Even if different ponies have different tastes, artists often try to represent beautiful things."
"It has a meaning?" said Silver Spoon.
"True but like beauty, meaning is not always the core of an art piece. Sometimes, it's just gratuitous. Anything else?"
"It represents things in real life!" said Featherweight. "Like photos!"
"Once again, it's true and it isn't. Recently, we've seen artists putting aside realism for abstraction, things like shapes, colors, lines."
"Pfff, art is beautiful but isn't, it has meaning and sometimes not, it's reality and it isn't. Sounds like a lot of —?"
"Archer!" scolded Cheerilee. "Do I need to convoke your parents once again?"
"No, Mrs Cheerilee," said Archer sheepishly. "I'm sorry."
"Apology accepted. Right. Art is something unique. It's the expression of one of your deepest and hidden feeling."
"Like Sweetie Belle's love for Button?" asked Apple Bloom.
The whole classroom burst into laughter, save for Sweetie Belle and Button Mash, the two foals blushing and trying to escape each other look.
"Maybe," said Cheerilee, grinning. "It's at least something pure and untouched that artists try to present to an audience. Something coming from deep inside their heart."
"Ewww," exclaimed Scootaloo. "That's so cheesy!"
"Maybe you want to sing us a song about that, Scootaloo?" replied Cheerilee. Scootaloo instantly stood still. "That's what I thought. Anyway, I want you to take your pencil and your paintbrushes and draw something. Then you'll try to write a short story about one or severals art pieces you'd have made."
"About what?" asked Pip Squeak.
"Well, it will be up to you to decide. Write a word or a phrase on a small paper and then, we'll vote to decide which one will be our theme. So be creative."
More than half of the classroom erupted in cheers, thrilled with the idea of drawing and painting. The rest simply groaned, hoping that it would soon come to the writing part.
"That wasn't quite the answer I expected. See me after class, Snips," said Cheerilee. "Now my little ponies, could anyone try to tell us what is art? If possible, in an understandable way."
Silence fell. Every foals looked at each other, hoping to find some clues from the others to Miss Cheerilee's question.
"Come on students, don't be shy. I'm not expecting a full answer. Whatever you would say could be a start."
"It's hmm, it's beautiful?" tried Sweetie Belle.
"Not exactly but that's a good point. Art is, indeed, usually beautiful. Even if different ponies have different tastes, artists often try to represent beautiful things."
"It has a meaning?" said Silver Spoon.
"True but like beauty, meaning is not always the core of an art piece. Sometimes, it's just gratuitous. Anything else?"
"It represents things in real life!" said Featherweight. "Like photos!"
"Once again, it's true and it isn't. Recently, we've seen artists putting aside realism for abstraction, things like shapes, colors, lines."
"Pfff, art is beautiful but isn't, it has meaning and sometimes not, it's reality and it isn't. Sounds like a lot of —?"
"Archer!" scolded Cheerilee. "Do I need to convoke your parents once again?"
"No, Mrs Cheerilee," said Archer sheepishly. "I'm sorry."
"Apology accepted. Right. Art is something unique. It's the expression of one of your deepest and hidden feeling."
"Like Sweetie Belle's love for Button?" asked Apple Bloom.
The whole classroom burst into laughter, save for Sweetie Belle and Button Mash, the two foals blushing and trying to escape each other look.
"Maybe," said Cheerilee, grinning. "It's at least something pure and untouched that artists try to present to an audience. Something coming from deep inside their heart."
"Ewww," exclaimed Scootaloo. "That's so cheesy!"
"Maybe you want to sing us a song about that, Scootaloo?" replied Cheerilee. Scootaloo instantly stood still. "That's what I thought. Anyway, I want you to take your pencil and your paintbrushes and draw something. Then you'll try to write a short story about one or severals art pieces you'd have made."
"About what?" asked Pip Squeak.
"Well, it will be up to you to decide. Write a word or a phrase on a small paper and then, we'll vote to decide which one will be our theme. So be creative."
More than half of the classroom erupted in cheers, thrilled with the idea of drawing and painting. The rest simply groaned, hoping that it would soon come to the writing part.
Whoa, art round again? Maybe I can summon my dubious art skillz and help stink up decorate the place.
>>GroaningGreyAgony
I have the strangest mareboner right now.
Okay, I always have the strangest mareboner. So sue me.
I have the strangest mareboner right now.
Okay, I always have the strangest mareboner. So sue me.
>>GroaningGreyAgony
Also I can hear every one of those perfectly. Your horse transliteration pleases Pinkie. (Yes.)
Also I can hear every one of those perfectly. Your horse transliteration pleases Pinkie. (Yes.)
Your stupid face suddenly popped into my head
Stuck in a feverish daze thinking “I’m not ready to die just yet.”
Wearing that smug, self-satisfied face in your teens
Learning the meaning of shame and embarrassment in your 20s
Finally getting the full measure of yourself in your 30s
That’s all part and parcel of one’s human experience
Stuck in a feverish daze thinking “I’m not ready to die just yet.”
Wearing that smug, self-satisfied face in your teens
Learning the meaning of shame and embarrassment in your 20s
Finally getting the full measure of yourself in your 30s
That’s all part and parcel of one’s human experience
“Niieeguh pbrh Wheeiy-eheh Hrumphrm!”
“The Good Old Days. Where Are Those Who Were Before Us?”
“Daybreaker? The Moon Is Down!”
“…Yes, Well, I Was Wrong. Another Turn? Fire walk with me, Grabbing the Wind Among the Clouds. High Road, Narrow Path Under the Sun…”
“For Hooves’ sake! Don’t Talk To Me Or My Son Ever Again!”
“Fictional Children? Make Me Something I Could Hang On My Wall.”
“The High and the Low, An Octave Higher–Dark Finale!”
“Heavy Weight. A Moment of Weakness, A Terrible Misunderstanding. Life Doesn’t Owe You Sadness.”
“…A Diamond in the Rough Shadowlight, I…”
“No Thanks are Necessary.”
“The Good Old Days. Where Are Those Who Were Before Us?”
“Daybreaker? The Moon Is Down!”
“…Yes, Well, I Was Wrong. Another Turn? Fire walk with me, Grabbing the Wind Among the Clouds. High Road, Narrow Path Under the Sun…”
“For Hooves’ sake! Don’t Talk To Me Or My Son Ever Again!”
“Fictional Children? Make Me Something I Could Hang On My Wall.”
“The High and the Low, An Octave Higher–Dark Finale!”
“Heavy Weight. A Moment of Weakness, A Terrible Misunderstanding. Life Doesn’t Owe You Sadness.”
“…A Diamond in the Rough Shadowlight, I…”
“No Thanks are Necessary.”
Huh... I just checked this on a whim, I thought the next round wouldn't start until later this month. Here's hoping I get to participate.
Post by
Bad Horse
, deleted
^
He posts in Writeoff forums, the Stallion of Despair,
He ghosts his posts before a mare can start to stare,
To mostly roast decorum, he’s just extraordinaire–
He’s here and gone
Within his course,
Perhaps he’d rather speak in Morse?
Bad Horse
Bad Horse...
He posts in Writeoff forums, the Stallion of Despair,
He ghosts his posts before a mare can start to stare,
To mostly roast decorum, he’s just extraordinaire–
He’s here and gone
Within his course,
Perhaps he’d rather speak in Morse?
Bad Horse
Bad Horse...
>>GroaningGreyAgony
Bad Horse, Bad Horse,
What you gonna do,
What you gonna do,
When he comes for you?
Bad Horse, Bad Horse,
What you gonna do,
What you gonna do,
When he comes for you?
You chuck it down that round,
You chuck it down this round,
You chuck it down the art,
And ya chuck it down this part,
Ya chuck it down the other,
And ya chuck it down the pother,
You chuck it down that one and you chuck it down me!
Bad Horse, Bad Horse,
What you gonna do,
What you gonna do,
When he comes for you?
Bad Horse, Bad Horse,
What you gonna do,
What you gonna do,
When he comes for you?
Bad Horse, Bad Horse,
What you gonna do,
What you gonna do,
When he comes for you?
You chuck it down that round,
You chuck it down this round,
You chuck it down the art,
And ya chuck it down this part,
Ya chuck it down the other,
And ya chuck it down the pother,
You chuck it down that one and you chuck it down me!
Bad Horse, Bad Horse,
What you gonna do,
What you gonna do,
When he comes for you?
I swear a sacred oath this is true: I goofed on the prompt submission/voting deadlines, and just now opened up writeoff.me to submit the prompt "Under the Sun".
… Only to find that my prompt already won.
[img]http://wiki.berrytube.tv/images/7/7f/Sonatathousandyardstare.png[/img]
… Only to find that my prompt already won.
[img]http://wiki.berrytube.tv/images/7/7f/Sonatathousandyardstare.png[/img]
>>MLPmatthewl419
Well, I've submitted "Under the Sun" probably about half a dozen times before. Though I'm not sure I can link you to my prompt submissions, because I can't find them on my userpage. :P Anyone know how to look those up?
At any rate, props to whoever beat me to it this time!
Well, I've submitted "Under the Sun" probably about half a dozen times before. Though I'm not sure I can link you to my prompt submissions, because I can't find them on my userpage. :P Anyone know how to look those up?
At any rate, props to whoever beat me to it this time!
>>horizon
heh heh..... now I feel like a thief.
the day after submitting it, I remembered that it had appeared a couple times in the past. but it never won so I wondered, people might be tired of it and not vote for it this time either? I felt so sure it wouldn't win.
I was inspired to submit this because of this song by 4everfreebrony.
if horizon says that was his inspiration too, something weird's going on....
heh heh..... now I feel like a thief.
the day after submitting it, I remembered that it had appeared a couple times in the past. but it never won so I wondered, people might be tired of it and not vote for it this time either? I felt so sure it wouldn't win.
I was inspired to submit this because of this song by 4everfreebrony.
if horizon says that was his inspiration too, something weird's going on....
>>horizon
>>Haze
Maybe you two were drawn to the herd mind by the call of >>GroaningGreyAgony. *spooky music*
(Kidding. Mostly.)
>>Haze
Maybe you two were drawn to the herd mind by the call of >>GroaningGreyAgony. *spooky music*
(Kidding. Mostly.)
What??
Another Writeoff already?? But I just finished my glass spider story from the last one! I was actually gonna post a note asking folks if they wanted to read and comment on the whole thing, put I guess I can still do that... :)
Mike
Another Writeoff already?? But I just finished my glass spider story from the last one! I was actually gonna post a note asking folks if they wanted to read and comment on the whole thing, put I guess I can still do that... :)
Mike
>>Haze
Nah, convergent evolution. I first started submitting "Under the Sun" because I loved the ambiguity of it: you could interpret it in the context of Celestia, or in the context of the celestial body, so while it implied princesspones and bureaucracies it was still wide open to alternate takes (daytime, heat, etc). Neat song though!
Nah, convergent evolution. I first started submitting "Under the Sun" because I loved the ambiguity of it: you could interpret it in the context of Celestia, or in the context of the celestial body, so while it implied princesspones and bureaucracies it was still wide open to alternate takes (daytime, heat, etc). Neat song though!
>>Baal Bunny
Cool! You should probably go back to the comment thread attached to your story from last round, too, and tag everyone who reviewed it. There's not as much crossover between the genfic and ponyfic sides as I feel like there ought to be.
Cool! You should probably go back to the comment thread attached to your story from last round, too, and tag everyone who reviewed it. There's not as much crossover between the genfic and ponyfic sides as I feel like there ought to be.
>>horizon
good reasons.
for me, since the previous two art rounds were.... um, somewhat morbid (so much death imagery!), this one at least suggests bright and colorful on the surface level. BUT it could still be subverted, so it's not limited.
I think fortunate timing played a part too. it's halfway through the year, which is summer for most of us. Midsummer's Eve is on the 24th, during the round, so time for something sun-related!
plus that new MLP episode a few days ago. I'm sure a few writers are already itching to create a story about Daybreaker. or Celestia's pancakes.
good reasons.
for me, since the previous two art rounds were.... um, somewhat morbid (so much death imagery!), this one at least suggests bright and colorful on the surface level. BUT it could still be subverted, so it's not limited.
I think fortunate timing played a part too. it's halfway through the year, which is summer for most of us. Midsummer's Eve is on the 24th, during the round, so time for something sun-related!
plus that new MLP episode a few days ago. I'm sure a few writers are already itching to create a story about Daybreaker. or Celestia's pancakes.
Somepony pmailed me about the Writeoff, probably because of the RCL interview I did. I suppose they might decide to join.
>>horizon
That's a good idea:
Thanks! I won't be joining in this round here, actually, folks, since I've already got three Pony stories I'm working on right now.
Mike
That's a good idea:
Thanks! I won't be joining in this round here, actually, folks, since I've already got three Pony stories I'm working on right now.
Mike
Aha! Stumbled across the original inspiration for me to start submitting this prompt, way back in 2014. ^..^
(Again, super chuffed it finally won. The fact I didn't even have to submit it just makes it cooler.)
(Again, super chuffed it finally won. The fact I didn't even have to submit it just makes it cooler.)
>>Fenton
Sterling is just so naughty.
Anyhow are art rounds going to be A Thing in perpetuity now? I mean they're cool but...well, unless we're free to just say screw it and work with prompt only which I might do because why not.
Sterling is just so naughty.
Anyhow are art rounds going to be A Thing in perpetuity now? I mean they're cool but...well, unless we're free to just say screw it and work with prompt only which I might do because why not.
>>Morning Sun
Art rounds are kind of an every other thing, but "fim" is an independant formula from the "original" writeoffs.
>>horizon
How did THAT give you inspiration for submitting this prompt?
Art rounds are kind of an every other thing, but "fim" is an independant formula from the "original" writeoffs.
>>horizon
How did THAT give you inspiration for submitting this prompt?
>>Morning Sun
Obviously, only Roger can answer that for sure, but I imagine that as long as people remain interested in doing them, they'll probably stick around. I wouldn't be surprised if they stop being every short story round eventually, but they do seem to be here to stay for the moment.
How about because that is explicitly against the rules?
Sure, you could just write a story using an obvious interpretation of the prompt and then just say it was based on whatever picture matches it the best, but I think that would at least be against the spirit of the writeoff. And if you used the four days of art to write your story, then that would absolutely be cheating.
Obviously, only Roger can answer that for sure, but I imagine that as long as people remain interested in doing them, they'll probably stick around. I wouldn't be surprised if they stop being every short story round eventually, but they do seem to be here to stay for the moment.
unless we're free to just say screw it and work with prompt only which I might do because why not.
How about because that is explicitly against the rules?
Sure, you could just write a story using an obvious interpretation of the prompt and then just say it was based on whatever picture matches it the best, but I think that would at least be against the spirit of the writeoff. And if you used the four days of art to write your story, then that would absolutely be cheating.
>>The_Letter_J
Well... against the spirit it may be, but several entries have definitely been doing that - writing whatever idea the author liked, and then looking for an appropriate picture or shoehorning in a reference to one. It happens in non-art rounds, too, but the art prompts tend to make it a bit more obvious (and a few have outright said that's what they did in retrospective posts.)
I'm really not a fan of these art rounds. Or, rather, not the system of picking from the art entries to use as writing prompts. Haven't spoken up about it before, because the concept was being tested out, and I didn't want to cause any fuss with the people who do like them, but... Yeah, with two under the belt now, I feel pretty clearly that the art prompt system is worse for the writing portion than normal prompts.
Some people have expressed desires for less strict prompts, or none at all. Others prefer stricter, more specific prompts, and more emphasis on writing to the prompt so people can't use concepts they've already been brewing (I'm in this camp). But the current art system, I think, leads to sort of a "worst of both worlds" deal, where you get both the disadvantages of having a prompt (stories get bent/weakened to include a forced concept) and the disadvantages of free writing (fewer points of comparison between entries, increased potential for genre/subject bias, less fair/harder to stop submissions of preexisting material/ideas).
It's also maybe not the greatest system for folks who are interested in the art portion as a competition of its own, because the art submissions get spammed up with stick figures, screenshots, etc, that people submit just to have them available as writing prompts. Last round, especially, I saw quite a few comments along the lines of "Uh okay you only spent 30 seconds in MS Paint on this, why am I taking time to rank this alongside people who actually put effort into their submission?" (To which the answer is "the winning story was based on the stick figure piece", so it's hard to say people shouldn't submit such things...)
Meant to get to posting about this in the end of one of the other rounds, but there never seemed to be a suitably socially appropriate time. Just my two cents, anyhow.
Well... against the spirit it may be, but several entries have definitely been doing that - writing whatever idea the author liked, and then looking for an appropriate picture or shoehorning in a reference to one. It happens in non-art rounds, too, but the art prompts tend to make it a bit more obvious (and a few have outright said that's what they did in retrospective posts.)
I'm really not a fan of these art rounds. Or, rather, not the system of picking from the art entries to use as writing prompts. Haven't spoken up about it before, because the concept was being tested out, and I didn't want to cause any fuss with the people who do like them, but... Yeah, with two under the belt now, I feel pretty clearly that the art prompt system is worse for the writing portion than normal prompts.
Some people have expressed desires for less strict prompts, or none at all. Others prefer stricter, more specific prompts, and more emphasis on writing to the prompt so people can't use concepts they've already been brewing (I'm in this camp). But the current art system, I think, leads to sort of a "worst of both worlds" deal, where you get both the disadvantages of having a prompt (stories get bent/weakened to include a forced concept) and the disadvantages of free writing (fewer points of comparison between entries, increased potential for genre/subject bias, less fair/harder to stop submissions of preexisting material/ideas).
It's also maybe not the greatest system for folks who are interested in the art portion as a competition of its own, because the art submissions get spammed up with stick figures, screenshots, etc, that people submit just to have them available as writing prompts. Last round, especially, I saw quite a few comments along the lines of "Uh okay you only spent 30 seconds in MS Paint on this, why am I taking time to rank this alongside people who actually put effort into their submission?" (To which the answer is "the winning story was based on the stick figure piece", so it's hard to say people shouldn't submit such things...)
Meant to get to posting about this in the end of one of the other rounds, but there never seemed to be a suitably socially appropriate time. Just my two cents, anyhow.
>>Ranmilia
It sounds to me like the problem is mostly with the people. If people aren't going to play by the rules, then why bother?
The writeoffs are built on honesty and trust. If people are going to betray that trust, it's not the writeoff's fault that it lets them.
Now if you just prefer having a phrase as a prompt instead of one of several pictures, that's fine. That's a discussion that should be had at some point. But I think the more important discussion is the one is why people are here and why they're doing what they are.
The main reasons we all should be here are to improve our writing/art, to get feedback about that writing/art, and to have fun. There (almost always) aren't any prizes to be won. All you get for winning are bragging rights and some compliments from a few random people on the internet. If people feel the need to cheat to have a better chance at winning, they really need to get their priorities straight. Maybe they need to just leave and find somewhere else to show off the stories they wrote without extra pressures and limitations to other authors (somewhere like fimfiction, perhaps).
And when it comes to submitting effortless art, I thought we established that people can't write stories about their pictures anyway. Obviously they could use an alt to submit a picture to write about, but that just goes back to them cheating and missing the point of these contests. If the winning story was based on a crappy MSP Paint stick figure, so what? That doesn't make that picture any better. That's why the voting on the art is separate. That stick figure picture doesn't get any special awards for having a good story written about it. If the person who submitted it did so because they're new at art and that's the best they can do, or because they thought it was good, or because they had fun making it, or for any other good reason, then that's great! That's how you get better. If they did it because they don't care and just wanted to make a specific prompt, then once again, I think they should really ask themselves why they're even here.
I'm sorry if this turned into a bit of a rant, but I find the fact that people feel the need to cheat the system for a small handful of fake internet points stupid and insulting, and I think those people deserve to be called out on it.
And again, this has nothing to do with whether or not the art rounds are a good idea. I think you make reasonable points there, even if I don't agree with all of them. I just think this is a bigger issue that needs to be dealt with first.
It sounds to me like the problem is mostly with the people. If people aren't going to play by the rules, then why bother?
The writeoffs are built on honesty and trust. If people are going to betray that trust, it's not the writeoff's fault that it lets them.
Now if you just prefer having a phrase as a prompt instead of one of several pictures, that's fine. That's a discussion that should be had at some point. But I think the more important discussion is the one is why people are here and why they're doing what they are.
The main reasons we all should be here are to improve our writing/art, to get feedback about that writing/art, and to have fun. There (almost always) aren't any prizes to be won. All you get for winning are bragging rights and some compliments from a few random people on the internet. If people feel the need to cheat to have a better chance at winning, they really need to get their priorities straight. Maybe they need to just leave and find somewhere else to show off the stories they wrote without extra pressures and limitations to other authors (somewhere like fimfiction, perhaps).
And when it comes to submitting effortless art, I thought we established that people can't write stories about their pictures anyway. Obviously they could use an alt to submit a picture to write about, but that just goes back to them cheating and missing the point of these contests. If the winning story was based on a crappy MSP Paint stick figure, so what? That doesn't make that picture any better. That's why the voting on the art is separate. That stick figure picture doesn't get any special awards for having a good story written about it. If the person who submitted it did so because they're new at art and that's the best they can do, or because they thought it was good, or because they had fun making it, or for any other good reason, then that's great! That's how you get better. If they did it because they don't care and just wanted to make a specific prompt, then once again, I think they should really ask themselves why they're even here.
I'm sorry if this turned into a bit of a rant, but I find the fact that people feel the need to cheat the system for a small handful of fake internet points stupid and insulting, and I think those people deserve to be called out on it.
And again, this has nothing to do with whether or not the art rounds are a good idea. I think you make reasonable points there, even if I don't agree with all of them. I just think this is a bigger issue that needs to be dealt with first.
>>The_Letter_J
May I devour your time?
Social species thinks this is not a prize? Sur-prize-ing.
Your responses to each other do not look "random". This is an illusion, like ours? You are pretending?
If truly no prize, no stakes, why is cheating bad? Nothing to steal.
(Some cards on the table: this "I" has not entered; other "I" has entered and been careful with rules; no other other "I" has spoken or entered. But this "I" wants to know.)
May I devour your time?
All you get for winning are bragging rights and some compliments from a few random people on the internet.
Social species thinks this is not a prize? Sur-prize-ing.
Your responses to each other do not look "random". This is an illusion, like ours? You are pretending?
If truly no prize, no stakes, why is cheating bad? Nothing to steal.
(Some cards on the table: this "I" has not entered; other "I" has entered and been careful with rules; no other other "I" has spoken or entered. But this "I" wants to know.)
>>Mirage8221
...
What? :applejackunsure:
Uh, discarding the manner in which you phrased what I think is the question of why it matters if you cheat if there's no real prizes, the answer there is that it matters because you're participating with other people. It's why you don't cheat at charity events, or friendly competitions, or anything else where you don't stand to gain anything truly substantial: because if you did cheat you'd be being a dick to your fellow participants. It's about respecting your fellows, respecting the competition, and respecting your own quality of work.
Thanks for respecting the rules on your other account, if that is indeed what you meant. Also, what did you mean about an illusion "like ours?" That's the one part of your comment I wasn't able to suss out the meaning of after a fair bit of thought.
...
What? :applejackunsure:
Uh, discarding the manner in which you phrased what I think is the question of why it matters if you cheat if there's no real prizes, the answer there is that it matters because you're participating with other people. It's why you don't cheat at charity events, or friendly competitions, or anything else where you don't stand to gain anything truly substantial: because if you did cheat you'd be being a dick to your fellow participants. It's about respecting your fellows, respecting the competition, and respecting your own quality of work.
Thanks for respecting the rules on your other account, if that is indeed what you meant. Also, what did you mean about an illusion "like ours?" That's the one part of your comment I wasn't able to suss out the meaning of after a fair bit of thought.
Hmm, I don't know if I'm going to have time for this one after all...
Nevertheless I guess I'll add my two cents about art as well. I think the art component has been interesting but I do feel it's a bummer to have all these days where I could be thinking about story ideas for the prompt (which seems like a good prompt by itself), except that I'm not supposed to do that I guess. Like to some extent it exacerbates the classic problem of whether a story is written to the prompt or not, because the prompt might raise possibilities that may or may not align with what shows up in the art.
Overall I think it's not a bad thing to have art occasionally but it's been pretty frequent of late.
Nevertheless I guess I'll add my two cents about art as well. I think the art component has been interesting but I do feel it's a bummer to have all these days where I could be thinking about story ideas for the prompt (which seems like a good prompt by itself), except that I'm not supposed to do that I guess. Like to some extent it exacerbates the classic problem of whether a story is written to the prompt or not, because the prompt might raise possibilities that may or may not align with what shows up in the art.
Overall I think it's not a bad thing to have art occasionally but it's been pretty frequent of late.
>>Morning Sun
Sorry, i didn't get it. Who or what is Sterling?
>>Ranmilia
If you're refferring to this post, that was just me trying to confuse the issue.
Anyway, let's get back to the real issues.
>>Ranmilia
>>The_Letter_J
This the the third art round and while it isn't much, that's the third in a row. I can understand that some people are getting bored of it. I suggested that we alternate between art and non-art rounds for each type of rounds (Fim short and mini, OF short and mini), and I don't know how many agree or disagree with that.
I think Roger should take a moment to gather the opinions (with a strawpoll for example) to see how frequent these art rounds should happen or if they should happen.
That being said, people trying to cheat the spirit of the Writeoff may be a concern but I don't think it's that big of a deal. While cheating is definitely something that must be reproved, you said that "The main reasons we all should be here are to improve our writing/art, to get feedback about that writing/art, and to have fun."
I don't think that people cheating would really improve on anything, and that's too bad for them. Regarding the fact that cheating would give them an advantage over the others, I'm not so sure about that. Because they don't improve, their writing stays at the same level. Thus, they don't take a place they didn't deserve.
Moreover, it's a bit of a contradiction. If, as you said, we're here to improve by getting feedback while having fun (and I fully agree with that), your rank shouldn't play a big role. For me, I don't really care about the ranking. I'm still happy when I see that I passed the prelims (that's one of my goal when I enter), but it's only like 10%-15% of my goal.
If you have 15 entries and they are all masterpieces, you'll still have a first and a last, regardless of the quality of each piece.
And last, but not least, I've "cheated" once or twice. With this one for example. I had the idea for a while and I had even started writing the beginning (around 500 words). When the round happened, I reworked these 500 words a bit, changing some words and adding some new meanings to fit the prompt, and expand from that point. If I decided to do this, that's because I try very hard to make my entry readable and enjoyable for the reader. I still have troubles to properly convey what I want and the extra time I got, I was thinking that it would help to make my entry more readable. If you take a look at the scoreboard, you'll see that I didn't really benefit the extra time.
Anyway, I've still have talked too much. I still think these art rounds are interesting and a nice change from the usual rounds but I'll agree with some people that thay happen too frequently.
Sorry, i didn't get it. Who or what is Sterling?
>>Ranmilia
Last round, especially, I saw quite a few comments along the lines of "Uh okay you only spent 30 seconds in MS Paint on this, why am I taking time to rank this alongside people who actually put effort into their submission?"
If you're refferring to this post, that was just me trying to confuse the issue.
Anyway, let's get back to the real issues.
>>Ranmilia
>>The_Letter_J
This the the third art round and while it isn't much, that's the third in a row. I can understand that some people are getting bored of it. I suggested that we alternate between art and non-art rounds for each type of rounds (Fim short and mini, OF short and mini), and I don't know how many agree or disagree with that.
I think Roger should take a moment to gather the opinions (with a strawpoll for example) to see how frequent these art rounds should happen or if they should happen.
That being said, people trying to cheat the spirit of the Writeoff may be a concern but I don't think it's that big of a deal. While cheating is definitely something that must be reproved, you said that "The main reasons we all should be here are to improve our writing/art, to get feedback about that writing/art, and to have fun."
I don't think that people cheating would really improve on anything, and that's too bad for them. Regarding the fact that cheating would give them an advantage over the others, I'm not so sure about that. Because they don't improve, their writing stays at the same level. Thus, they don't take a place they didn't deserve.
Moreover, it's a bit of a contradiction. If, as you said, we're here to improve by getting feedback while having fun (and I fully agree with that), your rank shouldn't play a big role. For me, I don't really care about the ranking. I'm still happy when I see that I passed the prelims (that's one of my goal when I enter), but it's only like 10%-15% of my goal.
If you have 15 entries and they are all masterpieces, you'll still have a first and a last, regardless of the quality of each piece.
And last, but not least, I've "cheated" once or twice. With this one for example. I had the idea for a while and I had even started writing the beginning (around 500 words). When the round happened, I reworked these 500 words a bit, changing some words and adding some new meanings to fit the prompt, and expand from that point. If I decided to do this, that's because I try very hard to make my entry readable and enjoyable for the reader. I still have troubles to properly convey what I want and the extra time I got, I was thinking that it would help to make my entry more readable. If you take a look at the scoreboard, you'll see that I didn't really benefit the extra time.
Anyway, I've still have talked too much. I still think these art rounds are interesting and a nice change from the usual rounds but I'll agree with some people that thay happen too frequently.
I have a novel in heavy editing, a game project, family and a dozen other things going on.
Why have I already decided to do this? I need a dang intervention.
Why have I already decided to do this? I need a dang intervention.
>>Fenton
I think Sunny thinks you're making references - which you may not have intended. You named a pony 'Archer', above, and Sterling Archer is a cartoon character from a moderately crude adult cartoon.
I think Sunny thinks you're making references - which you may not have intended. You named a pony 'Archer', above, and Sterling Archer is a cartoon character from a moderately crude adult cartoon.
>>CoffeeMinion
Second that. I'm glad that artists working with a visual medium have a chance to strut their stuff, but personally, I enjoy the creative freedom that working with a text-only prompt offers.
I don't mind doing an art prompt once in a while, of course. Maybe we could work it into the rotation as a recurring contest, though, rather than making every long-form writeoff an art contest.
Nevertheless I guess I'll add my two cents about art as well. I think the art component has been interesting but I do feel it's a bummer to have all these days where I could be thinking about story ideas for the prompt (which seems like a good prompt by itself), except that I'm not supposed to do that I guess. Like to some extent it exacerbates the classic problem of whether a story is written to the prompt or not, because the prompt might raise possibilities that may or may not align with what shows up in the art.
Second that. I'm glad that artists working with a visual medium have a chance to strut their stuff, but personally, I enjoy the creative freedom that working with a text-only prompt offers.
I don't mind doing an art prompt once in a while, of course. Maybe we could work it into the rotation as a recurring contest, though, rather than making every long-form writeoff an art contest.
If this were a minific round, I would write a story about Celestia consuming too much phoenix dust and devolving into a primal horse state, with all her dialogue being variations of "Wheeeeeiiinyerherherherherher prrrrphm phrm."
IF this were a minific round. I can't stretch that into 2000 words.
IF this were a minific round. I can't stretch that into 2000 words.
>>The_Letter_J
It's more 'I want to use the Prompt without an Art Piece that I have to work off', yes.
I have 0 issue with using the prompts for writing. Never have. And while last time using GGA's picture ended up working hilariously for me (Even if I missed the deadline so it went up on Fimfic instead), the art being a required component means the artists are free to do whatever they like and then the writers are constrained by that, which...ehhh.
FiM events have already gone from every 4 to 6 weeks to make room for OF, and if they're going to all be Art rounds too in perpetuity it's...kind of less fun. Not to knock people doing art pieces, but yea, most tend to be MSPaint mockups. The caliber of art quality is not the same as the writing quality. Which is fine - we're mostly writers here, after all - but it then feels bleh being further constrained by that.
>>Fenton
I think that only STRENGTHENS my argument. And yea, it was an Archer reference because one of the running gags is despite Archer being generally an obnoxious ass most of the time, he is also incredibly well versed in literary & film analysis, so people will be talking and out of nowhere he'll bust out some deep line about art or metaphysics or the symbolism of X work of art, then look at everyone else and be boggled that they don't get something so seemingly obvious.
Sort of like Sterling in your mini-bit.
It's more 'I want to use the Prompt without an Art Piece that I have to work off', yes.
I have 0 issue with using the prompts for writing. Never have. And while last time using GGA's picture ended up working hilariously for me (Even if I missed the deadline so it went up on Fimfic instead), the art being a required component means the artists are free to do whatever they like and then the writers are constrained by that, which...ehhh.
FiM events have already gone from every 4 to 6 weeks to make room for OF, and if they're going to all be Art rounds too in perpetuity it's...kind of less fun. Not to knock people doing art pieces, but yea, most tend to be MSPaint mockups. The caliber of art quality is not the same as the writing quality. Which is fine - we're mostly writers here, after all - but it then feels bleh being further constrained by that.
>>Fenton
I think that only STRENGTHENS my argument. And yea, it was an Archer reference because one of the running gags is despite Archer being generally an obnoxious ass most of the time, he is also incredibly well versed in literary & film analysis, so people will be talking and out of nowhere he'll bust out some deep line about art or metaphysics or the symbolism of X work of art, then look at everyone else and be boggled that they don't get something so seemingly obvious.
Sort of like Sterling in your mini-bit.
>>Morning Sun
This may be ironic coming from me, but I disagree hard with your assertion (both here and elsewhere) that "most" of the art is "MSPaint mockups." I think that's really insulting to a lot of the artists here, and the work they've done (and are still doing right now!) for us. I know I personally put in a lot of work on my art for this round, and I don't doubt others have either.
This may be ironic coming from me, but I disagree hard with your assertion (both here and elsewhere) that "most" of the art is "MSPaint mockups." I think that's really insulting to a lot of the artists here, and the work they've done (and are still doing right now!) for us. I know I personally put in a lot of work on my art for this round, and I don't doubt others have either.
Okay, I really want to reply to this continued conversation, but I've been too busy finishing up my submission(s). And now it's really late, and I need to sleep. I'll try to reply tomorrow, hopefully without disrupting the comments on the art too much.
>>Morning Sun said two things that I'll echo:
It's not like the art thing is terrible, but it gets to be this for me when it's so frequent.
Granted, were it not for GGA's phoenix dust piece... think of all the glorious insanity we would've missed out on. But yeah, I'm more in the mood to take the prompt directly and run with my own interpretation.
>>Dubs_Rewatcher
Actually I also don't feel good about dumping on the art that's been contributed, even if it was in MSPaint. I have no art skills whatsoever and if I submitted something I would be lucky to pull off even a "crappy" MSPaint comic. The point of the art hasn't seemed like it's been to offer targeted feedback and advice about how to improve the art, ala the feedback we do for stories; it seems more like people praise the "good" art and dump on the "bad." But what's the point of grousing about the specific pieces that are submitted unless it's to help them improve? And is this really the best place to seek that kind of feedback? (Like I can't be the only person here who looks at art and can tell you it's art but that's the extent of feasible critical analysis.)
Tl;dr: Art okay sometimes, absence may make heart grow fonder
kind of less fun
It's not like the art thing is terrible, but it gets to be this for me when it's so frequent.
it then feels bleh being further constrained by that
Granted, were it not for GGA's phoenix dust piece... think of all the glorious insanity we would've missed out on. But yeah, I'm more in the mood to take the prompt directly and run with my own interpretation.
>>Dubs_Rewatcher
Actually I also don't feel good about dumping on the art that's been contributed, even if it was in MSPaint. I have no art skills whatsoever and if I submitted something I would be lucky to pull off even a "crappy" MSPaint comic. The point of the art hasn't seemed like it's been to offer targeted feedback and advice about how to improve the art, ala the feedback we do for stories; it seems more like people praise the "good" art and dump on the "bad." But what's the point of grousing about the specific pieces that are submitted unless it's to help them improve? And is this really the best place to seek that kind of feedback? (Like I can't be the only person here who looks at art and can tell you it's art but that's the extent of feasible critical analysis.)
Tl;dr: Art okay sometimes, absence may make heart grow fonder
Well, I misjudged the cut-off by an hour due to a timezones change and just missed the submission :raritydespair: Oh well, it wasn't that good anyways since I don't have my art stuff. :ajshrug:
Good luck to everybody in the writing section!
Good luck to everybody in the writing section!
>>Dubs_Rewatcher
It's not meant to be insulting or derogatory. What I am attempting to convey is that this is a writer-centric hub. If you wish to assert that the previous contests quality of art (Which at the time of my previous post is all there was to go by) in the contests thusfar is equivalent to the quality of writing, you are free to do so. I disagree.
I can say 'I do not think these are of similar quality' without meaning any insult to those submitting art pieces. Effort and quality are two separate categories. I could labor for 30 hours to try to solve a complex multivariable calculus equation and my end product would be, with virtual certainty, inferior to a single hour's work on the same problem by a PhD with a specialization in that field.
When I originally posted, I was thinking of 'Rising from the Ashes' submissions in particular, and if you wish to disagree a large portion don't appear as if they were rendered in Paint, that's your right! But I am going to politely disagree, and I do so without meaning insult to those who took part.
What I am ultimately upset with, as noted, is feeling constrained by that. 'Must be based on the artwork to a reasonable degree' means that, say, if I want to write a story that does not include Celestia or Luna in any way, 10/19 submissions are unusable. If I want to do a story without Alicorns, CMCs, or Mane 6, that's 13/19 pieces gone that directly depict them. If I add in the abstract pieces that imply one of the above or are extremely hard to avoid, you are down to 'Into Flight', 'Her Eye Forever Gazes Down' and 'Among the Limelight' (Though I suspect Limelight is about Dash, the pony there could be any pegasus), and maaaybe 'Flow'.
And that's completely independent of art quality, and part of why I am saying the 'Now writer is subordinate to artist' thing feels like it rankles here since it seems the new norm. I'd rather the rules encourage people to use the artworks but not mandate it, and why I was expressing early on that I was/am considering just ignoring art pieces entirely and going for whatever idea I like.
It's not meant to be insulting or derogatory. What I am attempting to convey is that this is a writer-centric hub. If you wish to assert that the previous contests quality of art (Which at the time of my previous post is all there was to go by) in the contests thusfar is equivalent to the quality of writing, you are free to do so. I disagree.
I can say 'I do not think these are of similar quality' without meaning any insult to those submitting art pieces. Effort and quality are two separate categories. I could labor for 30 hours to try to solve a complex multivariable calculus equation and my end product would be, with virtual certainty, inferior to a single hour's work on the same problem by a PhD with a specialization in that field.
When I originally posted, I was thinking of 'Rising from the Ashes' submissions in particular, and if you wish to disagree a large portion don't appear as if they were rendered in Paint, that's your right! But I am going to politely disagree, and I do so without meaning insult to those who took part.
What I am ultimately upset with, as noted, is feeling constrained by that. 'Must be based on the artwork to a reasonable degree' means that, say, if I want to write a story that does not include Celestia or Luna in any way, 10/19 submissions are unusable. If I want to do a story without Alicorns, CMCs, or Mane 6, that's 13/19 pieces gone that directly depict them. If I add in the abstract pieces that imply one of the above or are extremely hard to avoid, you are down to 'Into Flight', 'Her Eye Forever Gazes Down' and 'Among the Limelight' (Though I suspect Limelight is about Dash, the pony there could be any pegasus), and maaaybe 'Flow'.
And that's completely independent of art quality, and part of why I am saying the 'Now writer is subordinate to artist' thing feels like it rankles here since it seems the new norm. I'd rather the rules encourage people to use the artworks but not mandate it, and why I was expressing early on that I was/am considering just ignoring art pieces entirely and going for whatever idea I like.
>>CoffeeMinion
And this. I have an idea I really, really like, but to make it work my options for the art right now are basically 'shoehorn something in' or 'ignore them entirely', which is a far cry from the way the prompts worked previously.
And this. I have an idea I really, really like, but to make it work my options for the art right now are basically 'shoehorn something in' or 'ignore them entirely', which is a far cry from the way the prompts worked previously.
Sorry I wasn't able to contribute to the art again. I'm playing a game called Getting Life in Order that ended up taking precedence.
I will, however, be entering at least one fic this round. :dashcool:
I will, however, be entering at least one fic this round. :dashcool:
>>Morning Sun
>>Morning Sun
Posting to agree with all this re:art vs writing focus and prompt systems. Basically what I was thinking but didn't articulate well.
>>Morning Sun
Posting to agree with all this re:art vs writing focus and prompt systems. Basically what I was thinking but didn't articulate well.
All right folks, I have had An Idea (TM). No ruddy clue when I'll have time to write it this weekend, but color me cautiously not-pessimistic.
Calling dibs on highest not-final spot now. FIGHT ME. :rainbowdetermined:
(EDIT: Arrgh, all the ideas are sucking...)
(EDIT: Arrgh, all the ideas are sucking...)
>>Fenton
>>Morning Sun
Sorry if I'm late and bring that up again but I wanted to say something about the art round discussion.
Soo... I kinda cheated here. I didn't know writing without having an art prompt as reference would be considered "cheating". The prompt title alone gave me some ideas and started thinking about a story.
Only afterwards I draw something in, like, 2 hours the night before the deadline, so I could somehow associate my story to it.
(To my defense, it's my first time here at writeoff. Also, I'm not a native English speaker.)
Anyway, you can see it as a symptom on how constraining it is.
I believe that art submission is a good idea, but not the way it is now. For me the art submissions are meant to be an inspiration, a way to give ideas for stories. But if the prompt title alone is sufficient to give an idea, you shouldn't be constrained by the drawing.
Also, I don't care about drawing competition. I mean, yeah sure, why not, it's a cool idea, but I wouldn't mix it with the writing. I'd keep them separate.
Art contest: you focus on drawing, get feedback, get first, whatever, and that's it.
Writing contest: art is just a bonus, an optional source of inspiration.
>>Morning Sun
Sorry if I'm late and bring that up again but I wanted to say something about the art round discussion.
Soo... I kinda cheated here. I didn't know writing without having an art prompt as reference would be considered "cheating". The prompt title alone gave me some ideas and started thinking about a story.
Only afterwards I draw something in, like, 2 hours the night before the deadline, so I could somehow associate my story to it.
(To my defense, it's my first time here at writeoff. Also, I'm not a native English speaker.)
Anyway, you can see it as a symptom on how constraining it is.
I believe that art submission is a good idea, but not the way it is now. For me the art submissions are meant to be an inspiration, a way to give ideas for stories. But if the prompt title alone is sufficient to give an idea, you shouldn't be constrained by the drawing.
Also, I don't care about drawing competition. I mean, yeah sure, why not, it's a cool idea, but I wouldn't mix it with the writing. I'd keep them separate.
Art contest: you focus on drawing, get feedback, get first, whatever, and that's it.
Writing contest: art is just a bonus, an optional source of inspiration.
>>moonwhisper
Welcome to the club! :)
+1
(To my defense, it's my first time here at writeoff. Also, I'm not a native English speaker.)
Welcome to the club! :)
I believe that art submission is a good idea, but not the way it is now. For me the art submissions are meant to be an inspiration, a way to give ideas for stories. But if the prompt title alone is sufficient to give an idea, you shouldn't be constrained by the drawing. Also, I don't care about drawing competition. I mean, yeah sure, why not, it's a cool idea, but I wouldn't mix it with the writing. I'd keep them separate.
+1
It looks like I'm way more likely to participate in the art rounds of creation and voting, than the writing round because there's a much smaller time commitment for both creation and judging parts of the contest.
I think that I will have to, regretfully, bail out on this month's competition. Just not enough time, or a good enough idea.
Best of luck everyone else!
EDIT: WOOOOOO
Okay, this has never been relevant before but apparently this one got away from me. How much wiggle room do we have on the word cap?
All right folks, I have caught The Fire(TM) and it looks like I've got a story incoming after all.
At this rate I'll almost certainly be fighting for a spot in the bottom five, but YEEEAAAHHH BOOYYEEEEE
At this rate I'll almost certainly be fighting for a spot in the bottom five, but YEEEAAAHHH BOOYYEEEEE
>>CoffeeMinion
In sharp contrast, my story is on fire, but I give up and am submitting it anyway.
In sharp contrast, my story is on fire, but I give up and am submitting it anyway.
And slides in with 4 hours remaining after being way too distracted by epic melodrama of Monochromatic and Albinocorn...
I got one in last night. Leaving for work so I can't do an editing pass. Good luck, all!
I've been quiet during this round (as opposed to my usual regimen of relentless shitposting), but don't worry, I managed to squeeze something in under the deadline.
Also, since I seem to recall a general complaint about a lack of child death in these writeoffs, I included a scene where Babs Seed falls on a hand grenade to save Coco Pommel's life. Also spike gets poisoned again, but it's just food poisoning, so the worst that happens is he
oh, looks like I got some shitposting in after all.
Also, since I seem to recall a general complaint about a lack of child death in these writeoffs, I included a scene where Babs Seed falls on a hand grenade to save Coco Pommel's life. Also spike gets poisoned again, but it's just food poisoning, so the worst that happens is he
oh, looks like I got some shitposting in after all.
![[img]http://wiki.berrytube.tv/images/7/7f/Sonatathousandyardstare.png[/img]](http://wiki.berrytube.tv/images/7/7f/Sonatathousandyardstare.png){kind=link}
Wasn't able to expand on my idea enough to get it submitted. :raritydespair: However, I loved the idea I had so I will be posting it on fimfiction despite it not being able to make the round. I guess this gives me some more time to edit now haha :twilightsheepish:
Well, didn't quite hit the deadline. Stupid bottom tier Maslow needs taking up my valuable time. As penance, I shall review the ever loving hell out of everything.
I did crank out nearly 2000 terrible words of Scoot-Dash sisterly sweetness though. So, small miracles. Also a fart joke because I'm classy, damn it.
I did crank out nearly 2000 terrible words of Scoot-Dash sisterly sweetness though. So, small miracles. Also a fart joke because I'm classy, damn it.
"I love deadlines. I love the wooshing noise they make as they go by!" --Douglas Adams
Why do I only ever start writing an entry for these things like 6 hours before the final deadline? I mean, I'm still relatively happy with what I got done, but I definitely felt rushed on the end, and certainly didn't get an edit pass.
Seriously, Muse, why can't you friggin' show up like the day BEFORE the deadline, instead of the night-of? :-P
Huh. No one wrote any stories about the Scootaloo, Rarity/Spike, Fluttershy(?), or Rainbow Dash pictures. It's like you all just wanted to write about Celestia or something.
>>The_Letter_J Sparity (or a cruel subversion thereof) was actually the first place my mind went before I settled on a version of If You Give A Little Love where Babs Seed fights terrorism.
>>DuskPhoenix (cc: >>Rao)
Don't forget that if you wrote a story to this round's prompt, it qualifies to be put in the Writeoff FIMFiction group's folder for this round, even if you weren't able to submit it to the Writeoff site!
We've had a few people not quite hit the submission window this round, so I've created this month's folder a little early. If you ARE in the competition here — remember to NOT publish your entry elsewhere (or otherwise break your anonymity!) until after the Gallery page lists your name by your story!
Don't forget that if you wrote a story to this round's prompt, it qualifies to be put in the Writeoff FIMFiction group's folder for this round, even if you weren't able to submit it to the Writeoff site!
We've had a few people not quite hit the submission window this round, so I've created this month's folder a little early. If you ARE in the competition here — remember to NOT publish your entry elsewhere (or otherwise break your anonymity!) until after the Gallery page lists your name by your story!
>>The_Letter_J
For what it's worth, my original idea was totally a Scootaloo fic based on the picture. I don't know why, but I got as far as an outline before the inspiration just dropped off.
For what it's worth, my original idea was totally a Scootaloo fic based on the picture. I don't know why, but I got as far as an outline before the inspiration just dropped off.
Before there is some proper writeoff reviewing being done, I decided since I kept banging on about titles in other rounds that I ought talk a little about titles. So I grabbed Ran and we went through all the titles (without looking at the fics) and amalgamated some thoughts on them.
So what sort of thoughts are these? Well, imagine we were at the bookstore, browsing book spines. Which stories do we pull off the shelf to look at? Which do we ignore? FIND OUT NOW.
We'll do one more look after we get through the stories to again assess how well the titles worked within the context of the story, because, yeah, to reiterate, this is some blind browsing bullshit here.
LEMME GET A LOOK AT THAT
Under the Sun: The Game!: I personally hate this exclamation point, but it accurately sells the seem irreverence and comedy, which means if you're looking for that sort of thing, you're in!
THAUMIC FIRES: A PRACTICAL APPROACH: STANDS OUT IN THE LIST. GOOD HOOK IDEA AS IT IMPLIES CHARACTERIZATION AND CONCEPT. RAN THINKS THIS IMPLIES TRIXIE. I THINK THIS IMPLIES TWILIGHT. WHO WILL RISE? WHO WILL FALL?
HMMM... MAYBE...
The Roe King's Tomb: I hope this is about fish eggs.
To Bring Back The Sun: Not super exciting, but does solid a job of implying the sort of story this might be
Unexpected Hazards of Interdimensional Transit: Its close to being funny, but doesn't quite make it. Not quite punchy enough.
Down To The Waterline: Reads nicely, seems to set some atmosphere.
Tales from Another Time: A Cantata Mezza Voce: Pretentious, long, vaguely interesting, lowercase F is weird as the only lower case, and probably about music ponies.
A Walk Beyond the Stars: It's fine. Vaguely pleasant sounding. Ran bets Sci-Fi, I bet Twilight/Celestia romance.
MIGHT TAKE A SECOND LOOK
The Nightmare Macabre: While I don't personally like this and I think it sounds like a bad indie horror game, I am forced, on principle, to agree that it does do a good job of (presumably) setting the tone for what kind of story this is going to be. I still don't like the words together.
The Archetypist: Not super great, but there is something to be said for the question of what an Archetypist is.
Unnatural Remedies: Cute little play on natural rememdies that has me vaguely intrigued as to what kind of story it is, but I am once again forced to agree that it doesn't really do a good job actaully communicating anything as to whether I want to read this story.
A Ghost of a Problem: There is some intrigue here and this at least seems to offer us something (spooky ghosts, I hope), but doesn't read good.
PASS
And Not Pick One: It just doesn't flow well. Kinda just thuds into place as written. Could be good in context of the story, but here in the "is this pulling us in?" review chunk? Nah.
72 hours: Title case is important, especially in such short title. It really stands out and sort of sets the tone for it being not super great writing.
Unsolicited: Just no real hook. One word titles have to be awesome words. Like mimblewimble.
A Gem Beneath: Needs something to follow up the word beneath. It just feels incomplete.
The Fool and the Sun: I am thou. Thou art I. Thou dost not tell us anything nor engage us in anyway.
No Brakes: Sorta the same thing as Unnatural Remedies, but doesn't strike with the cuteness to at least vaguely intrigue me.
Looking for Trouble: Generic regular phrase does not particularly inspire me to try.
So what sort of thoughts are these? Well, imagine we were at the bookstore, browsing book spines. Which stories do we pull off the shelf to look at? Which do we ignore? FIND OUT NOW.
We'll do one more look after we get through the stories to again assess how well the titles worked within the context of the story, because, yeah, to reiterate, this is some blind browsing bullshit here.
LEMME GET A LOOK AT THAT
Under the Sun: The Game!: I personally hate this exclamation point, but it accurately sells the seem irreverence and comedy, which means if you're looking for that sort of thing, you're in!
THAUMIC FIRES: A PRACTICAL APPROACH: STANDS OUT IN THE LIST. GOOD HOOK IDEA AS IT IMPLIES CHARACTERIZATION AND CONCEPT. RAN THINKS THIS IMPLIES TRIXIE. I THINK THIS IMPLIES TWILIGHT. WHO WILL RISE? WHO WILL FALL?
HMMM... MAYBE...
The Roe King's Tomb: I hope this is about fish eggs.
To Bring Back The Sun: Not super exciting, but does solid a job of implying the sort of story this might be
Unexpected Hazards of Interdimensional Transit: Its close to being funny, but doesn't quite make it. Not quite punchy enough.
Down To The Waterline: Reads nicely, seems to set some atmosphere.
Tales from Another Time: A Cantata Mezza Voce: Pretentious, long, vaguely interesting, lowercase F is weird as the only lower case, and probably about music ponies.
A Walk Beyond the Stars: It's fine. Vaguely pleasant sounding. Ran bets Sci-Fi, I bet Twilight/Celestia romance.
MIGHT TAKE A SECOND LOOK
The Nightmare Macabre: While I don't personally like this and I think it sounds like a bad indie horror game, I am forced, on principle, to agree that it does do a good job of (presumably) setting the tone for what kind of story this is going to be. I still don't like the words together.
The Archetypist: Not super great, but there is something to be said for the question of what an Archetypist is.
Unnatural Remedies: Cute little play on natural rememdies that has me vaguely intrigued as to what kind of story it is, but I am once again forced to agree that it doesn't really do a good job actaully communicating anything as to whether I want to read this story.
A Ghost of a Problem: There is some intrigue here and this at least seems to offer us something (spooky ghosts, I hope), but doesn't read good.
PASS
And Not Pick One: It just doesn't flow well. Kinda just thuds into place as written. Could be good in context of the story, but here in the "is this pulling us in?" review chunk? Nah.
72 hours: Title case is important, especially in such short title. It really stands out and sort of sets the tone for it being not super great writing.
Unsolicited: Just no real hook. One word titles have to be awesome words. Like mimblewimble.
A Gem Beneath: Needs something to follow up the word beneath. It just feels incomplete.
The Fool and the Sun: I am thou. Thou art I. Thou dost not tell us anything nor engage us in anyway.
No Brakes: Sorta the same thing as Unnatural Remedies, but doesn't strike with the cuteness to at least vaguely intrigue me.
Looking for Trouble: Generic regular phrase does not particularly inspire me to try.
That feel when you know most of what's wrong with your story and are already fixing it, but still want feedback—so you're torn over whether or not you want it to make the cut... again...
:raritydespair:
:raritydespair:
annoying dramatic discussion time:
I felt so discouraged this round by the negativity that I decided I didn't want to do any future art rounds ever again. (maybe. we'll see)
I don't at all refer to those who said they didn't want multiple art rounds in a row, and wanted to go back to the regular rounds. I think they're justified in speaking up, and I even agree with them (back in previous rounds I argued that we shouldn't do too many of these, despite liking them myself). Roger made a mistake with the scheduling, and they're addressing him with these complaints.
But others seemed like they were taking out their frustrations on the art participants instead. It's all low quality scribbles, it's too restrictive, the art is repetitive, the art isn't cohesive, artists get too much time(?). I think some of these are mutually exclusive; I'd rather have 30 different pictures from amateurs, than only 3 professionally-drawn masterpieces to choose from. To me they're just prompts and nothing more; the more ideas the better! All I get out of this contest is that nice feeling when my drawing inspired someone to write. But I can't even be sure about that, since people say they'd rather ignore the art while writing (and some say they already do that). If it's actually restrictive instead of inspiring, I dunno, making these feels like a waste of time.
I'm not sure what people as a whole want. I almost didn't want to post this at all. I get that people are honestly expressing their feelings on the art rounds, but I figured I should be honest too instead of bottling it up.
I felt so discouraged this round by the negativity that I decided I didn't want to do any future art rounds ever again. (maybe. we'll see)
I don't at all refer to those who said they didn't want multiple art rounds in a row, and wanted to go back to the regular rounds. I think they're justified in speaking up, and I even agree with them (back in previous rounds I argued that we shouldn't do too many of these, despite liking them myself). Roger made a mistake with the scheduling, and they're addressing him with these complaints.
But others seemed like they were taking out their frustrations on the art participants instead. It's all low quality scribbles, it's too restrictive, the art is repetitive, the art isn't cohesive, artists get too much time(?). I think some of these are mutually exclusive; I'd rather have 30 different pictures from amateurs, than only 3 professionally-drawn masterpieces to choose from. To me they're just prompts and nothing more; the more ideas the better! All I get out of this contest is that nice feeling when my drawing inspired someone to write. But I can't even be sure about that, since people say they'd rather ignore the art while writing (and some say they already do that). If it's actually restrictive instead of inspiring, I dunno, making these feels like a waste of time.
I'm not sure what people as a whole want. I almost didn't want to post this at all. I get that people are honestly expressing their feelings on the art rounds, but I figured I should be honest too instead of bottling it up.
>>Haze
I was one of the people who wasn't enamored with having art again so soon, and I'm glad you spoke up. I also kind of feel like a butt now, because I don't want the artists to come away feeling discouraged. Something you said is, IMO, key:
THIS. I give great credit to Horizon for offering actual legit constructive criticism and detailed analysis of the various pieces. And IMO we would be best served by welcoming amateur submissions, rather than expecting perfection. Art is the cherry on top around here, not the primary focus.
So for everyone who created art, thank you.
(Note that I didn't vote on any of the art the pieces because I have no bloody clue how to meaningfully rank art other than according to whether I liked them.)
I was one of the people who wasn't enamored with having art again so soon, and I'm glad you spoke up. I also kind of feel like a butt now, because I don't want the artists to come away feeling discouraged. Something you said is, IMO, key:
I'd rather have 30 different pictures from amateurs, than only 3 professionally-drawn masterpieces to choose from.
THIS. I give great credit to Horizon for offering actual legit constructive criticism and detailed analysis of the various pieces. And IMO we would be best served by welcoming amateur submissions, rather than expecting perfection. Art is the cherry on top around here, not the primary focus.
So for everyone who created art, thank you.
(Note that I didn't vote on any of the art the pieces because I have no bloody clue how to meaningfully rank art other than according to whether I liked them.)
>>CoffeeMinion
And what, exactly, is the problem with that strategy?
And how are you ranking the stories, if not by how much you like them?
Not knowing what to say about the art or how to give helpful comments is one thing. I can understand that completely. But if you're able to form enough of an opinion to say "I like that one," then you can vote on them.
Yes, you might not know enough to understand or appreciate how much work went into a piece. But guess what? That happens in the writing rounds too. It's happened to me with writing and art. And yeah, it kinda sucks when people don't properly appreciate your work, but that comes with the territory. It's something that we all just have to accept. And if anything, it's easier to understand intentions and effort in the art rounds, because the artists have the option to add a caption to explain themselves.
You might not be a professional art critic, but we're not professional artists. Most of us also aren't professional authors or editors. We don't let that stop us, do we?
(Note that I didn't vote on any of the art the pieces because I have no bloody clue how to meaningfully rank art other than according to whether I liked them.)
And what, exactly, is the problem with that strategy?
And how are you ranking the stories, if not by how much you like them?
Not knowing what to say about the art or how to give helpful comments is one thing. I can understand that completely. But if you're able to form enough of an opinion to say "I like that one," then you can vote on them.
Yes, you might not know enough to understand or appreciate how much work went into a piece. But guess what? That happens in the writing rounds too. It's happened to me with writing and art. And yeah, it kinda sucks when people don't properly appreciate your work, but that comes with the territory. It's something that we all just have to accept. And if anything, it's easier to understand intentions and effort in the art rounds, because the artists have the option to add a caption to explain themselves.
You might not be a professional art critic, but we're not professional artists. Most of us also aren't professional authors or editors. We don't let that stop us, do we?
>>The_Letter_J
Actually, while I fear that sometimes my reviews end up being rife with misfired attempts at humor and flagrant misappropriation of Horizon's rating tier concept, I do try to be thoughtful in my analysis and rating of the relative strengths of the various stories (but without going to the depth of formality of TAILS and/or other systems some people use, for my own sanity's sake). And I'm aware that's a high standard to aspire to when there's such a variety of genres, characters, situations, and (frankly) author skill levels that come into play in any given Writeoff. But I've rated past stories highly that I haven't necessarily "liked" if I can recognize underlying merit in the composition, and by the same token I don't necessarily put things to the top just because they featureLimestone characters and situations that I prefer. One recurring example is with shipping (or romance in general)... there are really only certain kinds that I'm predisposed to liking, but I figure it's neither accurate nor helpful for me to say a story isn't "good" simply on the basis of my not being into the kind of shipping it's going for. With that said, sometimes I struggle to maintain that objectivity (perhaps due to subject matter), or sometimes I come away sufficiently baffled by a work as to be unable to form a coherent opinion, and that's when I reach for the Abstain button.
Some of the questions I ask are:
Does the story tell a complete story? (This tends to be more of an issue in minific rounds but it's something I watch for in all of them.)
Does the story sell me on its central conceit? (Or does it reasonably seem like it would if I wasn't otherwise predisposed not to accept said conceit?)
Are any spelling/grammar missteps on the whole distracting, or are they few and basically forgivable?
Do the characters feel vibrant, well-represented, and fully-fleshed?
(And yes, sometimes I do look for that nebulous "X" factor that sets stories apart from the rest. I try to be mindful if I think a given story is doing that for me just because ofLimestone my preferred characters and situations, but I also don't try to fight it too hard if a story successfully sucks me in and delivers an experience that seems to defy what I can ascertain from the sum of its parts, though I do try to think on why it's doing that.)
...and the point of typing all that crap is not to assert coolness, but to make the point that I can't bring anything like that level of depth to my appreciation or analysis of art. (And also to try to take stock of how I rate things and to invite feedback on my feedback, which is rarer even than feedback itself.) I do feel encouraged by the invitation to vote based on whether or not I like a given piece of art, but I still feel like that's materially different than being able to point at established (or even hand-wavy) literary reasons why a story could reasonably be viewed as good or not.
Actually, while I fear that sometimes my reviews end up being rife with misfired attempts at humor and flagrant misappropriation of Horizon's rating tier concept, I do try to be thoughtful in my analysis and rating of the relative strengths of the various stories (but without going to the depth of formality of TAILS and/or other systems some people use, for my own sanity's sake). And I'm aware that's a high standard to aspire to when there's such a variety of genres, characters, situations, and (frankly) author skill levels that come into play in any given Writeoff. But I've rated past stories highly that I haven't necessarily "liked" if I can recognize underlying merit in the composition, and by the same token I don't necessarily put things to the top just because they feature
Some of the questions I ask are:
Does the story tell a complete story? (This tends to be more of an issue in minific rounds but it's something I watch for in all of them.)
Does the story sell me on its central conceit? (Or does it reasonably seem like it would if I wasn't otherwise predisposed not to accept said conceit?)
Are any spelling/grammar missteps on the whole distracting, or are they few and basically forgivable?
Do the characters feel vibrant, well-represented, and fully-fleshed?
(And yes, sometimes I do look for that nebulous "X" factor that sets stories apart from the rest. I try to be mindful if I think a given story is doing that for me just because of
...and the point of typing all that crap is not to assert coolness, but to make the point that I can't bring anything like that level of depth to my appreciation or analysis of art. (And also to try to take stock of how I rate things and to invite feedback on my feedback, which is rarer even than feedback itself.) I do feel encouraged by the invitation to vote based on whether or not I like a given piece of art, but I still feel like that's materially different than being able to point at established (or even hand-wavy) literary reasons why a story could reasonably be viewed as good or not.
Radio Writeoff Podcast
Coming this Saturday and airing on your favorite Discord server (link at the top)
24/06/2017 10pm UTC+2
Another art round, another podcast. But this time it's different because it's not like the last time but it is, at the same time. Not the last last time, but the last time, the time closer to us than the last last time. Get it?
In other words, Quill and Hat are back. That's right, no more approximate diction, no more tongue clicking, and no more awkward silence (though the last one can probably still happen).
As for which stories will be talked during the podcast, like usual, vote on the poll right here.
We hope to see you there!
Coming this Saturday and airing on your favorite Discord server (link at the top)
24/06/2017 10pm UTC+2
Another art round, another podcast. But this time it's different because it's not like the last time but it is, at the same time. Not the last last time, but the last time, the time closer to us than the last last time. Get it?
In other words, Quill and Hat are back. That's right, no more approximate diction, no more tongue clicking, and no more awkward silence (though the last one can probably still happen).
As for which stories will be talked during the podcast, like usual, vote on the poll right here.
We hope to see you there!
I'm really sorry I haven't had time to read and review this round, guys. Life stuff has been in the way recently.