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To Be Forgotten
“Hello, Tirek.”
Deep in the bowels of Tartarus, the frail centaur stirred. “Celestia?” he croaked.
At her name, the princess strode into the light. “It has been a long time.”
“Near five centuries, if I’ve kept count,” he said. “Of course, it’s hard to keep count when you’ve only your own thoughts for company.”
“Self-pity does not become you.”
He narrowed his eyes. “Why have you come here? Not to trade pleasantries, certainly.”
She paused. Then: “Do you know the etymology of the word ‘Tartarus?’”
“What game are you playing at?”
“It comes from Old Earth Pony,” she continued, as if he hadn’t spoken. “They called this place Taru-tírléas. Literally, ‘the rending of the inglorious.’” She shook her head. “A bit dramatic, if you ask me, but an apt description.”
Tirek scoffed. “There’s not been much rending either time you’ve confined me down here. Just sitting about, waiting…” he twisted his lips into a sneer, “plotting.”
“So far, yes.” Celestia stared at him. “Tell me. Do you feel weaker than you did a few centuries ago? More lethargic? Less… present?”
Something about the way she stressed the last word put him on edge. “How do you mean?” he demanded. “What do you know?”
She smiled sadly. “This is an ancient place. Long before you came to this land, and long before I ruled, there was Taru-tírléas: the realm to which the wicked were banished to wait… and to extinguish.”
Tirek’s sneer returned. “I hope you’re not waiting for me to perish. Surely, after all these centuries, you’ve realized that you’ll not be rid of me so easily?”
“Oh, I know you’re immortal. But there is power in this realm deeper than life and death. Tartarus is a place of existence and non-existence.”
She shifted her gaze, staring off into the darkness which surrounded them. “Those bound in Tartarus exist only so long as the mortal races of Equestria remember them. And when their lives have been forgotten, they disappear.” Her eyes glinted. “Not death. Simply… nothing.”
Tirek’s heart paused. Carefully, he asked, “Am I still well-remembered in Equestria?”
“You are not.”
He looked at his hands. Were they frailer than they had been? He tried to remember what he felt like, a century ago. Had he always been so… insubstantial? “How much longer?”
“Until you are forgotten? That’s a very good question. There are none among the mortals who personally remember you anymore, of course. You are not immortalized in any famous songs or legends. You are not the villain of any holiday, nor the boogeymare invoked in any household. Truthfully, I’m a little surprised you’re still here at all.” She shook her head. “If nothing changes, you’ll disappear very soon.”
As she spoke, his heart began to race faster and faster, until he could barely hear her over its pounding. “You cannot do this to me!” Tirek cried. “You cannot let me vanish! You wouldn’t! You can’t!”
“I can.” She paused. “But I won’t. Not yet.” She levitated something out from behind her: a book. “To celebrate her 500th birthday, Princess Twilight is about to publish an autobiography recounting her early adventures, and it has a whole chapter dedicated to you.” She sent it through the invisible wards, setting it at Tirek’s hooves. “Given how popular she is, and how grand an affair a quincentenary is, I’m sure that will buy you at least another generation. I thought you might appreciate an advance copy.”
Tirek stared at the book. “Why are you showing me this? What is your plan?”
The sad smile returned. “I believe in second chances, Tirek. And third chances, and fourth chances, and as many chances as it takes. I want nothing more than for you to walk among ponykind freely—as a friend, or at least not as an enemy. I have waited thousands of years for you to take the hoof that is offered, as Discord and so many others have done. Will you not give friendship a chance?”
Finally, he tore his eyes away from the book. “I came here twice in chains,” he said. “I’ll not leave in them, whether they’re physical or not.”
Celestia seemed to shrink. “As you would have it, then. If you… I hope you’ll change your mind. Remember, though: time is not on your side.” She turned and trotted away, and within moments had vanished into the darkness. “Goodbye.”
For a long time, Tirek didn’t move. Finally, picked up the book.
He hurled it out into the abyss.
Deep in the bowels of Tartarus, the frail centaur stirred. “Celestia?” he croaked.
At her name, the princess strode into the light. “It has been a long time.”
“Near five centuries, if I’ve kept count,” he said. “Of course, it’s hard to keep count when you’ve only your own thoughts for company.”
“Self-pity does not become you.”
He narrowed his eyes. “Why have you come here? Not to trade pleasantries, certainly.”
She paused. Then: “Do you know the etymology of the word ‘Tartarus?’”
“What game are you playing at?”
“It comes from Old Earth Pony,” she continued, as if he hadn’t spoken. “They called this place Taru-tírléas. Literally, ‘the rending of the inglorious.’” She shook her head. “A bit dramatic, if you ask me, but an apt description.”
Tirek scoffed. “There’s not been much rending either time you’ve confined me down here. Just sitting about, waiting…” he twisted his lips into a sneer, “plotting.”
“So far, yes.” Celestia stared at him. “Tell me. Do you feel weaker than you did a few centuries ago? More lethargic? Less… present?”
Something about the way she stressed the last word put him on edge. “How do you mean?” he demanded. “What do you know?”
She smiled sadly. “This is an ancient place. Long before you came to this land, and long before I ruled, there was Taru-tírléas: the realm to which the wicked were banished to wait… and to extinguish.”
Tirek’s sneer returned. “I hope you’re not waiting for me to perish. Surely, after all these centuries, you’ve realized that you’ll not be rid of me so easily?”
“Oh, I know you’re immortal. But there is power in this realm deeper than life and death. Tartarus is a place of existence and non-existence.”
She shifted her gaze, staring off into the darkness which surrounded them. “Those bound in Tartarus exist only so long as the mortal races of Equestria remember them. And when their lives have been forgotten, they disappear.” Her eyes glinted. “Not death. Simply… nothing.”
Tirek’s heart paused. Carefully, he asked, “Am I still well-remembered in Equestria?”
“You are not.”
He looked at his hands. Were they frailer than they had been? He tried to remember what he felt like, a century ago. Had he always been so… insubstantial? “How much longer?”
“Until you are forgotten? That’s a very good question. There are none among the mortals who personally remember you anymore, of course. You are not immortalized in any famous songs or legends. You are not the villain of any holiday, nor the boogeymare invoked in any household. Truthfully, I’m a little surprised you’re still here at all.” She shook her head. “If nothing changes, you’ll disappear very soon.”
As she spoke, his heart began to race faster and faster, until he could barely hear her over its pounding. “You cannot do this to me!” Tirek cried. “You cannot let me vanish! You wouldn’t! You can’t!”
“I can.” She paused. “But I won’t. Not yet.” She levitated something out from behind her: a book. “To celebrate her 500th birthday, Princess Twilight is about to publish an autobiography recounting her early adventures, and it has a whole chapter dedicated to you.” She sent it through the invisible wards, setting it at Tirek’s hooves. “Given how popular she is, and how grand an affair a quincentenary is, I’m sure that will buy you at least another generation. I thought you might appreciate an advance copy.”
Tirek stared at the book. “Why are you showing me this? What is your plan?”
The sad smile returned. “I believe in second chances, Tirek. And third chances, and fourth chances, and as many chances as it takes. I want nothing more than for you to walk among ponykind freely—as a friend, or at least not as an enemy. I have waited thousands of years for you to take the hoof that is offered, as Discord and so many others have done. Will you not give friendship a chance?”
Finally, he tore his eyes away from the book. “I came here twice in chains,” he said. “I’ll not leave in them, whether they’re physical or not.”
Celestia seemed to shrink. “As you would have it, then. If you… I hope you’ll change your mind. Remember, though: time is not on your side.” She turned and trotted away, and within moments had vanished into the darkness. “Goodbye.”
For a long time, Tirek didn’t move. Finally, picked up the book.
He hurled it out into the abyss.
Genre: What Can Change The Nature Of A Man Giant Weird Centaur Thingy?
Thoughts: My #1 impression is that there's some darn good fanfiction going on in here. We get presentations of Tirek and Celestia that feel spot-on, as well as world building that's creepy (in the good way) and effective, as well as a scenario that seems tailor-made to showcase both Celestia's and Tirek's depth of character. The ending is perfect and I don't want to spoil it even though I really want to spoil it.
Uhh, quibbles and nitpicks?
... I got nothing.
Tier: Top Contender
Thoughts: My #1 impression is that there's some darn good fanfiction going on in here. We get presentations of Tirek and Celestia that feel spot-on, as well as world building that's creepy (in the good way) and effective, as well as a scenario that seems tailor-made to showcase both Celestia's and Tirek's depth of character. The ending is perfect and I don't want to spoil it even though I really want to spoil it.
Uhh, quibbles and nitpicks?
... I got nothing.
Tier: Top Contender
That's a very resonant prompt interpretation! And there's some neat world-building going on here. (Old Earth Pony was its own language?) I like how this is all prompted by a significant event in-universe, too, rather than just being a random or scheduled encounter. The finality of the ending line gives it more punch; I think I like it much better that way than if it had had a more ambiguous ending.
Celestia offering yet another mercy and Tirek rejecting it harshly in the way that they do feels like spot-on mindset characterization. Specifically, the contrast between:
and:
is just the best thing.
Celestia offering yet another mercy and Tirek rejecting it harshly in the way that they do feels like spot-on mindset characterization. Specifically, the contrast between:
“I believe in second chances, Tirek. And third chances, and fourth chances, and as many chances as it takes.”
and:
“I came here twice in chains,” he said. “I’ll not leave in them, whether they’re physical or not.”
is just the best thing.
Excellent writing, here. The setup gives both characters a chance to be at their most eloquent, and their dialogue is very well written. The very concept is quite fascinating; consider how much trouble Tirek had caused in his time, and by now he's just... forgotten, like any of a line-up of lesser two-bit villains. I'm normally a bit averse to reforming villains, as it usually comes off as artificial and ruins their unique character (I don't think I'll ever manage to like good!Starlight Glimmer), but the concept didn't feel the slightest bit bothersome here.
This story has some nice lines in it. There is some fun back and forth between Tirek and Celestia. It's well written. The problem is that the story's premise/plot doesn't actually work upon basic inspection.
First, within the story Princess Celestia calls Tirek "Immortal." By definition that means he cannot die. However, if one ceases to exist that's death. It may not be a heart attack or an arrow through the head but it's death. Therefore IF we accept that Tirek can cease to exist that means he's not immortal. He might be invulnerable, he may not be able to die by means of time or injury but he's not immortal if he can cease to exist. Therefore, he is in fact mortal and all he has to do is remember himself and he's fine.
But let's say we don't want to follow that logic. Okay. Those who are members of the mortal races would have to remember him. Twilight Sparkle is a popular princess with immortality who has written an autobiography that includes him. The book will sell and Princess Celestia says that only a generation more will remember him if he's lucky. The book now becomes a historical document. Whenever someone new reads the book they would learn about Tirek and who he was to some degree. No matter how much time passes someone somewhere will read that book or have to study that book to some degree therefore Tirek would not cease to exist because some mortal would always know who he is.
This logic also would note that other ponies from the time probably kept journals, reports, and so on. Some giant red dude essentially stealing everyone's magic would be recorded somewhere. Add to the fact that Tirek is also a foreign born prince and chances are his people still exist and are mortal. There would be historical records of him there too. Chances are there are folks there who know who is there as well.
However, let's say neither of those ideas work for someone. Okay. Let's say he's immortal and blinks out of existence. What happens if after that happens he is remembered because of the slip of a tongue or again someone reads one of the books? Does he pop back into existence again? Considering the only rule is that if you're forgotten you cease to be, then the opposite must be true. If all of a sudden he's remembered he becomes again.
Anyway, I thought it was overall a reasonably entertaining piece. I just don't think that the plot worked.
First, within the story Princess Celestia calls Tirek "Immortal." By definition that means he cannot die. However, if one ceases to exist that's death. It may not be a heart attack or an arrow through the head but it's death. Therefore IF we accept that Tirek can cease to exist that means he's not immortal. He might be invulnerable, he may not be able to die by means of time or injury but he's not immortal if he can cease to exist. Therefore, he is in fact mortal and all he has to do is remember himself and he's fine.
But let's say we don't want to follow that logic. Okay. Those who are members of the mortal races would have to remember him. Twilight Sparkle is a popular princess with immortality who has written an autobiography that includes him. The book will sell and Princess Celestia says that only a generation more will remember him if he's lucky. The book now becomes a historical document. Whenever someone new reads the book they would learn about Tirek and who he was to some degree. No matter how much time passes someone somewhere will read that book or have to study that book to some degree therefore Tirek would not cease to exist because some mortal would always know who he is.
This logic also would note that other ponies from the time probably kept journals, reports, and so on. Some giant red dude essentially stealing everyone's magic would be recorded somewhere. Add to the fact that Tirek is also a foreign born prince and chances are his people still exist and are mortal. There would be historical records of him there too. Chances are there are folks there who know who is there as well.
However, let's say neither of those ideas work for someone. Okay. Let's say he's immortal and blinks out of existence. What happens if after that happens he is remembered because of the slip of a tongue or again someone reads one of the books? Does he pop back into existence again? Considering the only rule is that if you're forgotten you cease to be, then the opposite must be true. If all of a sudden he's remembered he becomes again.
Anyway, I thought it was overall a reasonably entertaining piece. I just don't think that the plot worked.
>>Misternick I think this supposed plot hole is way off from the intended interpretation in ways that are not justified in the text.
The idea that being hard-removed from reality qualifies as a form of death for the purposes of the definition of "immortal" requires far too narrow a definition of "immortal" for this setting. There are common non-strict definitions which only refer to something like "extreme longevity and relative invulnerability, such that no mortal-level force attempting to kill them in a recognizable way will realistically succeed, while retaining the possibility of unusual forms of 'death' via planet/god/cosmos-tier activities". There are versions of "immortality" that last for an indefinite period but can be actively removed (such as by, say, the "power deeper than life and death" directly described?) and subsequently allow the previously-immortal to die. In fact, I would guess that strict, hard immortality is rarer than the mostly-hard kind in fantastic settings. (Or you could start playing around with the definition of "exist" instead, but I don't feel like digging into that.)
"the mortal races of Equestria" can easily imply "… who are not in Tartarus" (and does already if one assumes Tartarus is not part of Equestria) given the intent of the punishment, so he doesn't count even if he's mortal, and he can't cheat by finding a mortal in Tartarus to watch him. (Or maybe he can, and Celestia doesn't know about it! That could be a sequel hook!)
"remember" can easily imply "above a nonzero threshold of habitually having related emotions", as it often does in a social sense in real life, and as it often does when remembrance is used as a source of power or longevity in fantasy. So no, "his existence is recorded somewhere in a book" doesn't count unless the book is actually read frequently and attentively enough for someone to "experience" his existence in their imagination and no long enough period of time passes when it isn't.
"Considering the only rule is that if you're forgotten you cease to be, then the opposite must be true." is not represented: saying that something undergoes a transition under certain conditions does not generally imply that it reverts if the conditions go away. "The milk will spoil if you leave it on top of the radiator" doesn't mean that it turns back if you put it back in the fridge afterward.
"Tirek is also a foreign born prince and chances are his people still exist" is not represented in the text; if it's in canon I've completely forgotten about it; and there's no reason to strongly believe that will be true over all relevant timescales even if it started out true.
And there's no reason to believe Celestia's quoting directly out of the magical contracts underlying Tartarus or whatever, as opposed to focusing on making her point comprehensible to Tirek, so being imprecise about what's going on doesn't imply she's wrong or lying in a way that would be too OOC. Obviously narratively the point has to be comprehensible to the reader as well, but in this case I think it is.
Basically: this is the sort of plot complaint that could maybe work in a hard sci-fi environment. But not in this setting, not in literal magical pony land.
The idea that being hard-removed from reality qualifies as a form of death for the purposes of the definition of "immortal" requires far too narrow a definition of "immortal" for this setting. There are common non-strict definitions which only refer to something like "extreme longevity and relative invulnerability, such that no mortal-level force attempting to kill them in a recognizable way will realistically succeed, while retaining the possibility of unusual forms of 'death' via planet/god/cosmos-tier activities". There are versions of "immortality" that last for an indefinite period but can be actively removed (such as by, say, the "power deeper than life and death" directly described?) and subsequently allow the previously-immortal to die. In fact, I would guess that strict, hard immortality is rarer than the mostly-hard kind in fantastic settings. (Or you could start playing around with the definition of "exist" instead, but I don't feel like digging into that.)
"the mortal races of Equestria" can easily imply "… who are not in Tartarus" (and does already if one assumes Tartarus is not part of Equestria) given the intent of the punishment, so he doesn't count even if he's mortal, and he can't cheat by finding a mortal in Tartarus to watch him. (Or maybe he can, and Celestia doesn't know about it! That could be a sequel hook!)
"remember" can easily imply "above a nonzero threshold of habitually having related emotions", as it often does in a social sense in real life, and as it often does when remembrance is used as a source of power or longevity in fantasy. So no, "his existence is recorded somewhere in a book" doesn't count unless the book is actually read frequently and attentively enough for someone to "experience" his existence in their imagination and no long enough period of time passes when it isn't.
"Considering the only rule is that if you're forgotten you cease to be, then the opposite must be true." is not represented: saying that something undergoes a transition under certain conditions does not generally imply that it reverts if the conditions go away. "The milk will spoil if you leave it on top of the radiator" doesn't mean that it turns back if you put it back in the fridge afterward.
"Tirek is also a foreign born prince and chances are his people still exist" is not represented in the text; if it's in canon I've completely forgotten about it; and there's no reason to strongly believe that will be true over all relevant timescales even if it started out true.
And there's no reason to believe Celestia's quoting directly out of the magical contracts underlying Tartarus or whatever, as opposed to focusing on making her point comprehensible to Tirek, so being imprecise about what's going on doesn't imply she's wrong or lying in a way that would be too OOC. Obviously narratively the point has to be comprehensible to the reader as well, but in this case I think it is.
Basically: this is the sort of plot complaint that could maybe work in a hard sci-fi environment. But not in this setting, not in literal magical pony land.
I'm running short on time to comment on each story, so I'll try to add some value(?) briefly. It's a solid execution of the prompt with worldbuilding that doesn't take centre stage, and characterisation that feels both true and alive. I did find myself agreeing with the comments concerning the plot made by >>Misternick, but this was nevertheless very enjoyable. You've done exceptionally well fitting all this into the word limit.
Thanks for sharing your work.
Thanks for sharing your work.
>>Light_Striker
Here's the problem with all of that. It's not what the author said in the story and it shouldn't matter what genre you're working in. Words have actual real meanings. It is the author's job to understand that and if he decides to stray from that meaning then he has to explain it.
This entire issue could be easily fixed. All Princess Celestia had to note was that Tirek's life had been extended due to his magical prowess. If that made the story too long then edits to Twilight's 500th birthday, the book, and Princess Celestia's goodbye could have been made and nothing would have been lost.
Here's the problem with all of that. It's not what the author said in the story and it shouldn't matter what genre you're working in. Words have actual real meanings. It is the author's job to understand that and if he decides to stray from that meaning then he has to explain it.
This entire issue could be easily fixed. All Princess Celestia had to note was that Tirek's life had been extended due to his magical prowess. If that made the story too long then edits to Twilight's 500th birthday, the book, and Princess Celestia's goodbye could have been made and nothing would have been lost.
I liked this. It worked well, had a good premise and some good exchanges, and Tirek's response to Celestia's offer fit well.
I really enjoyed this; as-is, it's sitting at the top of my slate. A solid execution of the prompt, with some nice worldbuilding, and a good use of available space. It also served as a nice study in communicating emotional depth with very few words; I especially liked:
Thank you for writing, author.
My only quibble, which I'm sure you've already noticed:
:|
Tirek’s heart paused. Carefully, he asked, “Am I still well-remembered in Equestria?”
Thank you for writing, author.
My only quibble, which I'm sure you've already noticed:
Finally, picked up the book.
:|
A very well-done story that makes an interesting use of the writing prompt. I think other people have been more eloquent about this story's good point, so I'll just say that it was a great read for me.
One other thing: I noticed the discussion about it being almost impossible for Tirek to truly be forgotten in Equestria, and therefore the plot of the story is meaningless. Not necessarily. Celestia might very well know that her threat of Tirek's annihilation is just a bluff, but Tirek has no way of knowing that, stuck in his cell as he is. She might have just told him all of that, and then she just plans to let him stew for however long he continues to stay down there. (There's also the added benefit that if he ever does come back he'll believe he has to quickly make himself well-known, which will make him much easier to locate and apprehend.)
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
One other thing: I noticed the discussion about it being almost impossible for Tirek to truly be forgotten in Equestria, and therefore the plot of the story is meaningless. Not necessarily. Celestia might very well know that her threat of Tirek's annihilation is just a bluff, but Tirek has no way of knowing that, stuck in his cell as he is. She might have just told him all of that, and then she just plans to let him stew for however long he continues to stay down there. (There's also the added benefit that if he ever does come back he'll believe he has to quickly make himself well-known, which will make him much easier to locate and apprehend.)
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Well, this one has been about done to death, and I have nothing to add except that it is indeed a good tale.
But one thing: if those in Tartarus cease to exist when the world has forgotten them... what about Celestia? Luna? Cadance? Especially Twilight. If they continue to remember that there was a being named Tirek, and only they remember, is that alone enough to keep him lingering, frail and near-death, for centuries and millennia?
Would that be a fate worse than death?
But one thing: if those in Tartarus cease to exist when the world has forgotten them... what about Celestia? Luna? Cadance? Especially Twilight. If they continue to remember that there was a being named Tirek, and only they remember, is that alone enough to keep him lingering, frail and near-death, for centuries and millennia?
Would that be a fate worse than death?
Deep in the bowels of Tartarus, the frail centaur stirred. Mmmpf.
There's some awkward phrasing here and there, but fair enough.
This reminds me much of Carabas’s The King in the Mountain. More or less the same plot, but Carabas's is arguably more imaginative. Having read Carabas’s piece, I have little to say. This seems to be a redacted copy of it, with Tirek filling in for Astralus. I'm sorry I can't really appreciate this fully.
There's some awkward phrasing here and there, but fair enough.
This reminds me much of Carabas’s The King in the Mountain. More or less the same plot, but Carabas's is arguably more imaginative. Having read Carabas’s piece, I have little to say. This seems to be a redacted copy of it, with Tirek filling in for Astralus. I'm sorry I can't really appreciate this fully.
>>Misternick
You can't nitpick plots to death in a 750 word story. If you do, all you'll end up with are most basic and unassailable stories and a lot of bored readers.
The last line here is great.
You can't nitpick plots to death in a 750 word story. If you do, all you'll end up with are most basic and unassailable stories and a lot of bored readers.
The last line here is great.
>>Cold in Gardez Ditto on the last line. Frequently, the first and last lines of a story make the whole thing, and it certainly does here. "Tis' better to reign in Hell..." Very high on my slate and with a certain A+.
Mm. This was okay, but on the boring side to me, never really hooking my interest or caring about what Tirek would do with the book.
Tirek and Celestia are in character, that's for sure... but maybe a little too much so. Celestia's good to a fault, Tirek's evil to a fault, and I feel like I've seen those archetypes play out this exact way plenty of times. "Dumbledore talks to Voldemort at the ghostly train station." "Michael visits Lucifer in hell." Any scene in DC comics where Batman visits a villain in Arkham. The final Hunger scene in Persona 4. I don't mind the plot not making much sense, but I do wish the story did something a little more spicy with either of the characters. Show some variation, more personal history, banter beyond Celestia expositioning, something.
Admittedly, some large part of that is due to my intense personal apathy towards Tirek. Never found him interesting in the slightest, and while I await the day some awesome fic will make me change my mind on him, this one doesn't budge me. I guess he's a unique figure for ponyfic because he's the only character who's Capital E Evil By Choice but also intelligent?
Execution seems okay, but again tied to the hook. The etymology of Tartarus and the not-so-veiled literary references, well... I can see how they would be cool for a reader who's into the scene, but for me they just reinforced the feeling of "yep this is an archetype scene referencing similar works, I've read this before."
So it's a miss for me, but judging by the other comments, I'm in the minority for being so un-hooked, and that's fair enough. Thanks for writing!
Tirek and Celestia are in character, that's for sure... but maybe a little too much so. Celestia's good to a fault, Tirek's evil to a fault, and I feel like I've seen those archetypes play out this exact way plenty of times. "Dumbledore talks to Voldemort at the ghostly train station." "Michael visits Lucifer in hell." Any scene in DC comics where Batman visits a villain in Arkham. The final Hunger scene in Persona 4. I don't mind the plot not making much sense, but I do wish the story did something a little more spicy with either of the characters. Show some variation, more personal history, banter beyond Celestia expositioning, something.
Admittedly, some large part of that is due to my intense personal apathy towards Tirek. Never found him interesting in the slightest, and while I await the day some awesome fic will make me change my mind on him, this one doesn't budge me. I guess he's a unique figure for ponyfic because he's the only character who's Capital E Evil By Choice but also intelligent?
Execution seems okay, but again tied to the hook. The etymology of Tartarus and the not-so-veiled literary references, well... I can see how they would be cool for a reader who's into the scene, but for me they just reinforced the feeling of "yep this is an archetype scene referencing similar works, I've read this before."
So it's a miss for me, but judging by the other comments, I'm in the minority for being so un-hooked, and that's fair enough. Thanks for writing!
I fall in line a little more with Ran here in that this mostly came across as competently executed, but doesn't particularly grab me. I also have a little trouble with the logic of him being forgotten, but I guess 500 years is a thing? But still, he did kinda successfully conquer Equestria for a period. Kinda shocked there aren't more legends of him.
First off, congrats to CD and GGA! All three of your collective fics were strong entries. Also, shoutout to Everyday for writing my personal favorite fic, at least of the ones I read. Apologies for not reviewing it, but I read a bunch of fics at the last minute and didn't have either the time, or much to say that hadn't been covered by other reviewers, by then. And most broadly, thanks to everyone for entering and reviewing!
And speaking of other peoples' reviewing, it's time to talk about the most important of things: MY fic. That's right, let's do...
To Be Forgotten: A Retrospective
This story started out significantly over the word limit, and I had to trim it back significantly to make the wordcount limit. That almost always happens to me, and it almost always results in a stronger fic than I would otherwise have put out. It's one of the reasons I like minific rounds; they encourage me to take a scalpel to fics, and find the digressions and needless throw-ins that I might otherwise not even notice.
In the case of this fic, though, I was able to cut it down to a bit over 900 words without too much trouble... but getting rid of the last 250 words was a challenge, and I think the end result suffered for it. That doesn't usually happen to me in a minific round. Anyway, the good news is that I'll be able to flesh this out a little more when I'm ready to publish it, whether on its own or in my minific collection, and that it held together well enough for most of you to enjoy it even as-written! Plus, I did cut a bunch of unnecessary words in order to make it to the word limit, so the process was still ultimately a beneficial one.
Now, on to the comments!
>>CoffeeMinion
>>Light_Striker
>>JudgeDeadd
>>Fenton
>>Ceffyl_Dwr
>>TitaniumDragon
>>eusocialdragon
>>PaulAsaran
Thank you all for taking the time to comment, and I'm glad you all enjoyed the story!
>>Misternick
>>Misternick
Thank you for taking the time to comment! I appreciate your thoughts, and I'll keep them in mind as I fill out this fic. But I'm going to have to respectfully parry "Words have actual real meanings" right back at you; you seem to be operating under some nonstandard definitions of both "immortal" and "remember." >>Light_Striker covered the former more than adequately--how it's arguably used more frequently to refer to a non-absolute state of continued existence than to a creature literally incapable of ever not being alive. And while "remember" is occasionally used in the absolute sense you're using it in, it's much more commonly used to indicate a certain level of familiarity. I wouldn't say that I "remember" Samuel Pepys, when all I know about him is his name and that he wrote a medieval diary.
But regardless, I would like to suggest, that you're looking for a level of specificity in this conversation which would have no place in a conversation. Lawyerly precision can be wonderful in certain contexts--but I think it would ill fit this particular dialogue.
Please don't take this to mean I'm blowing off your comments, though. I do appreciate that you had trouble picking up on what Tirek's situation entailed, and that's something I agree can be addressed. Thank you!
>>Foehn
*Headdesk* On the plus side, I'd have had to find one more word to cut without that typo...
Seriously though, thank you for the comments and the catch!
>>Monokeras
I must admit that I haven't read that fic, but given that it's Carabas, I wouldn't be at all shocked if he did the same idea better. I'll give it a look!
>>Cold in Gardez
>>georg
Glad you liked it! Also, fun fact for you two, and everyone who liked the ending: I originally conceived of this ending on a more open-ended note, but luckily realized early on that that wasn't satisfying. Tirek's one of the few legitimately evil characters the show's given us; ambiguity doesn't really suit him.
>>Ranmilia
Looks like this is twice (>>Ranmilia) that I've failed to impress you in a writeoff :( Sorry to have put together something that wasn't to your tastes for a second time; I guess I'll have to look at the stories you did praise the last few times, and see if I can't put together something you can enjoy next go-round!
>>AndrewRogue
I mean, 500 years is the gap from us to King Henry VIII. And other than him and perhaps a couple dozen other people... how many people from that time can you even name without resorting to google? You'll certainly leave out a whole heap of people who could legitimately have claimed to be among the most important and influential people in the world, at the time. Likewise, I wonder how big a deal will Tirek will really be a few hundred years on, when he's just another name on page 544 of some history book, under the heading "list of foes vanquished by Twilight Sparkle."
At least, that's my interpretation. I must admit that I tend to see things going all "Ozymandias" a little faster than many authors, but I feel like 500 years is a LONG time. Thanks for comment, and I'll keep that in mind when I revise!
And speaking of other peoples' reviewing, it's time to talk about the most important of things: MY fic. That's right, let's do...
To Be Forgotten: A Retrospective
This story started out significantly over the word limit, and I had to trim it back significantly to make the wordcount limit. That almost always happens to me, and it almost always results in a stronger fic than I would otherwise have put out. It's one of the reasons I like minific rounds; they encourage me to take a scalpel to fics, and find the digressions and needless throw-ins that I might otherwise not even notice.
In the case of this fic, though, I was able to cut it down to a bit over 900 words without too much trouble... but getting rid of the last 250 words was a challenge, and I think the end result suffered for it. That doesn't usually happen to me in a minific round. Anyway, the good news is that I'll be able to flesh this out a little more when I'm ready to publish it, whether on its own or in my minific collection, and that it held together well enough for most of you to enjoy it even as-written! Plus, I did cut a bunch of unnecessary words in order to make it to the word limit, so the process was still ultimately a beneficial one.
Now, on to the comments!
>>CoffeeMinion
>>Light_Striker
>>JudgeDeadd
>>Fenton
>>Ceffyl_Dwr
>>TitaniumDragon
>>eusocialdragon
>>PaulAsaran
Thank you all for taking the time to comment, and I'm glad you all enjoyed the story!
>>Misternick
>>Misternick
Thank you for taking the time to comment! I appreciate your thoughts, and I'll keep them in mind as I fill out this fic. But I'm going to have to respectfully parry "Words have actual real meanings" right back at you; you seem to be operating under some nonstandard definitions of both "immortal" and "remember." >>Light_Striker covered the former more than adequately--how it's arguably used more frequently to refer to a non-absolute state of continued existence than to a creature literally incapable of ever not being alive. And while "remember" is occasionally used in the absolute sense you're using it in, it's much more commonly used to indicate a certain level of familiarity. I wouldn't say that I "remember" Samuel Pepys, when all I know about him is his name and that he wrote a medieval diary.
But regardless, I would like to suggest, that you're looking for a level of specificity in this conversation which would have no place in a conversation. Lawyerly precision can be wonderful in certain contexts--but I think it would ill fit this particular dialogue.
Please don't take this to mean I'm blowing off your comments, though. I do appreciate that you had trouble picking up on what Tirek's situation entailed, and that's something I agree can be addressed. Thank you!
>>Foehn
Finally, picked up the book
*Headdesk* On the plus side, I'd have had to find one more word to cut without that typo...
Seriously though, thank you for the comments and the catch!
>>Monokeras
I must admit that I haven't read that fic, but given that it's Carabas, I wouldn't be at all shocked if he did the same idea better. I'll give it a look!
>>Cold in Gardez
>>georg
Glad you liked it! Also, fun fact for you two, and everyone who liked the ending: I originally conceived of this ending on a more open-ended note, but luckily realized early on that that wasn't satisfying. Tirek's one of the few legitimately evil characters the show's given us; ambiguity doesn't really suit him.
>>Ranmilia
Looks like this is twice (>>Ranmilia) that I've failed to impress you in a writeoff :( Sorry to have put together something that wasn't to your tastes for a second time; I guess I'll have to look at the stories you did praise the last few times, and see if I can't put together something you can enjoy next go-round!
>>AndrewRogue
I mean, 500 years is the gap from us to King Henry VIII. And other than him and perhaps a couple dozen other people... how many people from that time can you even name without resorting to google? You'll certainly leave out a whole heap of people who could legitimately have claimed to be among the most important and influential people in the world, at the time. Likewise, I wonder how big a deal will Tirek will really be a few hundred years on, when he's just another name on page 544 of some history book, under the heading "list of foes vanquished by Twilight Sparkle."
At least, that's my interpretation. I must admit that I tend to see things going all "Ozymandias" a little faster than many authors, but I feel like 500 years is a LONG time. Thanks for comment, and I'll keep that in mind when I revise!
>>Chris
Well, in all seriousness it's okay to blow me or anyone else off. It's your story and you can write it however you want. At the end of the day, as long as you're happy with your work who cares what some yahoo from the internet thinks?
Well, in all seriousness it's okay to blow me or anyone else off. It's your story and you can write it however you want. At the end of the day, as long as you're happy with your work who cares what some yahoo from the internet thinks?