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No Princesses' Land
There was something, back when I was still Celestia's student, that might help you understand, sweetheart. Many years ago, I was having tea with her, a winter afternoon.
"Your majesty?" A young Twilight's sweet voice asked.
"Yes, Twilight?"
"I've wanted to ask this question for quite a while, but I'm not entirely sure I'd be... Appropriate for you, or me."
"No question is inappropriate, Twilight. You're always better off knowing more than less."
"Why don't you have any friends?"
The question stunned Celestia, left her breathless. Unusually, the princess smiled nervously, looking around with the same feeling. She scanned the large study room, making sure no one else was there than she and her pupil. She closed the curtains with her golden magic, and the shadow covered her face along with a graver expression. Twilight's pupils grew larger as the room got darker. "Are you alright, princess? I'm terribly sorry if I've upset you..."
"Don't worry, Twilight, you haven't upset me. You may not see it, but I'm actually very glad you've asked this question this early to me. It could serve very well if you decide to continue under my tutorship." The princess lit an amber crystal chandelier hanging above them. "So, you want to know why I don't have friends anymore?" Twilight nodded her head gently. "Well, I did have some friends before, a very, very long time ago. They've left me now, all of them, very long ago, way before you or your parents were even born."
"B-but... Why, Princess? You're so talented, kind, encouraging... Why would any friend leave you?"
"They didn't choose to leave me. They would have stayed, I would have wanted them to stay, but they went somewhere. Somewhere I couldn't go, somewhere you might not too. They left, one by one, silently or loudly. They just carried on, onto an adventure I would have wanted to embark on with them. Sadly, not every door is open, not even for me."
"But your majesty, you're the Princess! You're making the sun rise and the moon fall, keeping Equestria under the stars and over waters. You're ruling over all the known world, couldn't you have followed them?"
"I couldn't, and you've said precisely why. There is a plce, not in Equestria nor Tartarus, where all ponies go one day. Your grandparents have gone there, your parents will along with all your friends. One day, you might too. But not me. I won't join you there, nor will I join any of my friends. Everyone goes here, except princesses. Do you understand?"
"Majesty, does that mean I'll stop studying with you one day? Does that mean we'll never talk again? Is there any way for me to stay with you?"
"There is, Twilight, there is. If you become a princess like me or Cadence, you'll stay with me and her, we'll always be together. But you must know one thing; This also means you'll never see your friends as I will never see mine. You'll stay for eternity away from them, away from everyone you've known and cherished. Being a princess is not a privilege; It's a burden. Do you understand?"
"I-I... I don't think I'm ready to yet, your majesty. I can't yet understand everything we're talking about. I don't think I'm ready yet to be a princess, I don't know if I ever will."
"It's perfectly normal at your age Twilight. You might one day. You might not. But you must remember one thing; Whether you're a princess or not, whether we stay together or you quit, it doesn't matter. You might leave them, they might leave you, but they will always be with you, deep inside you. Do you understand, Twilight?"
"This I can understand, your majesty. Thank you."
Years have passed now since this event, decades even. My granddaughter asks me if she is in my heart too. I smile at her and nod, then lift her up on my back with my magic. I watch the hole in front of us, and the coffin hanging over it by some boards. We walk next to it, laying some flowers down and paying last respects to yet another one leaving us, leaving me forever. I can't help but to shed a tear, knowing they walk in peace, far away from anything my wings or horn can reach .
"Your majesty?" A young Twilight's sweet voice asked.
"Yes, Twilight?"
"I've wanted to ask this question for quite a while, but I'm not entirely sure I'd be... Appropriate for you, or me."
"No question is inappropriate, Twilight. You're always better off knowing more than less."
"Why don't you have any friends?"
The question stunned Celestia, left her breathless. Unusually, the princess smiled nervously, looking around with the same feeling. She scanned the large study room, making sure no one else was there than she and her pupil. She closed the curtains with her golden magic, and the shadow covered her face along with a graver expression. Twilight's pupils grew larger as the room got darker. "Are you alright, princess? I'm terribly sorry if I've upset you..."
"Don't worry, Twilight, you haven't upset me. You may not see it, but I'm actually very glad you've asked this question this early to me. It could serve very well if you decide to continue under my tutorship." The princess lit an amber crystal chandelier hanging above them. "So, you want to know why I don't have friends anymore?" Twilight nodded her head gently. "Well, I did have some friends before, a very, very long time ago. They've left me now, all of them, very long ago, way before you or your parents were even born."
"B-but... Why, Princess? You're so talented, kind, encouraging... Why would any friend leave you?"
"They didn't choose to leave me. They would have stayed, I would have wanted them to stay, but they went somewhere. Somewhere I couldn't go, somewhere you might not too. They left, one by one, silently or loudly. They just carried on, onto an adventure I would have wanted to embark on with them. Sadly, not every door is open, not even for me."
"But your majesty, you're the Princess! You're making the sun rise and the moon fall, keeping Equestria under the stars and over waters. You're ruling over all the known world, couldn't you have followed them?"
"I couldn't, and you've said precisely why. There is a plce, not in Equestria nor Tartarus, where all ponies go one day. Your grandparents have gone there, your parents will along with all your friends. One day, you might too. But not me. I won't join you there, nor will I join any of my friends. Everyone goes here, except princesses. Do you understand?"
"Majesty, does that mean I'll stop studying with you one day? Does that mean we'll never talk again? Is there any way for me to stay with you?"
"There is, Twilight, there is. If you become a princess like me or Cadence, you'll stay with me and her, we'll always be together. But you must know one thing; This also means you'll never see your friends as I will never see mine. You'll stay for eternity away from them, away from everyone you've known and cherished. Being a princess is not a privilege; It's a burden. Do you understand?"
"I-I... I don't think I'm ready to yet, your majesty. I can't yet understand everything we're talking about. I don't think I'm ready yet to be a princess, I don't know if I ever will."
"It's perfectly normal at your age Twilight. You might one day. You might not. But you must remember one thing; Whether you're a princess or not, whether we stay together or you quit, it doesn't matter. You might leave them, they might leave you, but they will always be with you, deep inside you. Do you understand, Twilight?"
"This I can understand, your majesty. Thank you."
Years have passed now since this event, decades even. My granddaughter asks me if she is in my heart too. I smile at her and nod, then lift her up on my back with my magic. I watch the hole in front of us, and the coffin hanging over it by some boards. We walk next to it, laying some flowers down and paying last respects to yet another one leaving us, leaving me forever. I can't help but to shed a tear, knowing they walk in peace, far away from anything my wings or horn can reach .
First of all, I like the idea. It seems realistic for a conversation between the two on the subject, especially at Twilight's young age. I also like how you've framed it, as a story Twilight's told to her granddaughter. However, I feel like it needs some work. The dialogue isn't... dialogue-y enough; there's not enough of a back-and-forth, as Celestia speaks in these large paragraphs. In addition, I feel like there needs to be more actions, more to break up the long chunks of dialogue when there's nothing but that.
This is a very old trope in the fandom, and it's difficult to use it to contribute anything new or interesting. I think the biggest problem with the message the story gives us is that it doesn't actually tell us if there's an afterlife or what it is, or why princesses don't eventually die after millenia since they can't stay around literally forever. By trying to avoid explicitly providing an afterlife mythos or saying that it doesn't exist, you leave too much up to the reader and we don't feel like we have a full message.
I think part of this disconnect comes from the fact that Celestia is speaking to a child, and she speaks in riddles because the child isn't ready to handle the truth. But the audience reading this isn't children, and even if we were, this isn't a good way to approach discussion about death (whether or not there is an afterlife) with children. It seems like the issue is being danced around.
I'm not sure why Celestia's situation is really that different, since she and other alicorns are friends, so those friends stay with her forever. The story fails to explain why Celestia's alicorn friendships aren't worth the same as other ponies' non-alicorn friendships, so to speak.
I think the opener and closer portions are an unnecessary distraction. This story is currently a flashback to a time when Twilight told a story from her youth (a second flashback within the first one) about a conversation with Celestia. Just tell the story at a single level: either Twilight to her descendant, or Celestia to Twilight. It's tempting to gum things up like this because it feels like you're saying more, but it isn't a good idea.
I think part of this disconnect comes from the fact that Celestia is speaking to a child, and she speaks in riddles because the child isn't ready to handle the truth. But the audience reading this isn't children, and even if we were, this isn't a good way to approach discussion about death (whether or not there is an afterlife) with children. It seems like the issue is being danced around.
I'm not sure why Celestia's situation is really that different, since she and other alicorns are friends, so those friends stay with her forever. The story fails to explain why Celestia's alicorn friendships aren't worth the same as other ponies' non-alicorn friendships, so to speak.
I think the opener and closer portions are an unnecessary distraction. This story is currently a flashback to a time when Twilight told a story from her youth (a second flashback within the first one) about a conversation with Celestia. Just tell the story at a single level: either Twilight to her descendant, or Celestia to Twilight. It's tempting to gum things up like this because it feels like you're saying more, but it isn't a good idea.
This is going to be the standard against which I rank everything--convenient, since it was the first thing on my ballot. But I'm a bit wary of the "you might become a princess too one day" angle. It might have been even more meaningful if Celestia had explained death and immortality to Twilight and expressed her feelings without trying to teach the your friends will die lesson.
Nonetheless, it's a solid story.
>>Trick_Question
I don't think Celestia here is dancing around the issue of the afterlife existing. She seems to be pretty clear that it does. The particulars aren't really relevant to the story.
Nonetheless, it's a solid story.
>>Trick_Question
I don't think Celestia here is dancing around the issue of the afterlife existing. She seems to be pretty clear that it does. The particulars aren't really relevant to the story.
>>Waterpear
If she's going to tell Twilight that an afterlife exists, it makes no sense that she wouldn't describe it! If it exists, how do they know? Why can't they communicate with the ponies who are there anymore? These are questions any child would ask.
The author chose not to open a can of worms after they made it the centerpiece of the table, and I think that's a vital mistake.
If she's going to tell Twilight that an afterlife exists, it makes no sense that she wouldn't describe it! If it exists, how do they know? Why can't they communicate with the ponies who are there anymore? These are questions any child would ask.
The author chose not to open a can of worms after they made it the centerpiece of the table, and I think that's a vital mistake.
>>Trick_Question
I think the author might not have wanted to do all this in what's essentially a short story. I'd love to see the ideas expanded on, but scratching the bare minimum already takes 739 words. Sacrifices have to be made sometimes, especially when space is so cramped. Worldbuilding belongs more in longer fics, but not really in a small SoL scene. You didn't ask yourself about all the intricacies of zebra culture and magic when Zecora was introduced, despite her being different being, well, a zebra.
As for the questions, I'd think Twilight would just accept Celestia's answers unless they contradict her own beliefs, since she thinks of her quite highly.
I think the author might not have wanted to do all this in what's essentially a short story. I'd love to see the ideas expanded on, but scratching the bare minimum already takes 739 words. Sacrifices have to be made sometimes, especially when space is so cramped. Worldbuilding belongs more in longer fics, but not really in a small SoL scene. You didn't ask yourself about all the intricacies of zebra culture and magic when Zecora was introduced, despite her being different being, well, a zebra.
As for the questions, I'd think Twilight would just accept Celestia's answers unless they contradict her own beliefs, since she thinks of her quite highly.
>>MCA
I'll try to be more specific, because my concerns aren't about the minific format or the depth of coverage of the subject matter. The problem I have with this story can be fixed without adding significant depth or horsewords, particularly if the scope is limited to a single scene rather than with flashbacks.
This is a story about sad feelings. The reader needs information that will allow them to experience those feelings naturally—without being explicitly told what to feel by the author. In this story, there isn't enough information provided to justify that the reader should feel sad for Celestia or Twilight. Thus the story falls short of its goal.
If the thing that's supposed to make me feel sad is the difference between Celestia's future and that of her non-alicorn friends, I need enough detail about that thing to convince me that I should feel sad. The mere fact that the characters are sad about something isn't enough to convey the emotion in a compelling way.
My criticism here is the most common critique in amateur fiction, because it's so hard to learn to do properly: show, don't tell. The author's job is very subtle: to trick the reader into thinking the ideas and emotions they experience are coming from their own mind. The author does this by laying the dominoes up very carefully, so the reader will end up coming to the conclusions the author wants them to have. Seeing characters act sad, or being told by the author that something is sad, is not nearly as compelling as reading a description that actually evokes sadness.
I'll try to be more specific, because my concerns aren't about the minific format or the depth of coverage of the subject matter. The problem I have with this story can be fixed without adding significant depth or horsewords, particularly if the scope is limited to a single scene rather than with flashbacks.
This is a story about sad feelings. The reader needs information that will allow them to experience those feelings naturally—without being explicitly told what to feel by the author. In this story, there isn't enough information provided to justify that the reader should feel sad for Celestia or Twilight. Thus the story falls short of its goal.
If the thing that's supposed to make me feel sad is the difference between Celestia's future and that of her non-alicorn friends, I need enough detail about that thing to convince me that I should feel sad. The mere fact that the characters are sad about something isn't enough to convey the emotion in a compelling way.
My criticism here is the most common critique in amateur fiction, because it's so hard to learn to do properly: show, don't tell. The author's job is very subtle: to trick the reader into thinking the ideas and emotions they experience are coming from their own mind. The author does this by laying the dominoes up very carefully, so the reader will end up coming to the conclusions the author wants them to have. Seeing characters act sad, or being told by the author that something is sad, is not nearly as compelling as reading a description that actually evokes sadness.
First, my thoughts : The story starts out stronger, but there are a few simple mistakes; 'place' is misspelled 'plce', for example. As it goes on though, it begins to lose its way a bit. Filly-Twilight's dialogue to me didn't feel natural. For example:
Twilight has never used 'Majesty' to my knowledge in the show when one on one. She always uses 'Princess' when talking to Celestia directly. I think she may have used 'your majesty' in a group setting once or twice, but that'd be the limit of it.
Similarly, why is Celestia drawing the curtains, closing everything off? Adult ponies know she's ageless; she's not imparting a deep secret here. They're having a talk about death, before Twilight is ready to comprehend death. What is closing them off doing for us?
There's a solid core here, but one that still has tarnish and plenty of polish it can undergo, mostly on characterization. Make me feel 'Celestia' and 'Twilight' as characters more and you'll go much further in power.
>>Trick_Question
I don't think there needs be a direct answer; I do agree Celestia seems to be heavily implying an afterlife, but it's a filly conversation; it doesn't need 'Do we have souls?' and 'What happens when the universe runs out of energy?' as answers here. They're not really critical to this.
It may need 'Are alicorns truly unkillable?' because if they can die, then what's next isn't truly unattainable. So that question should be addressed somehow.
"Majesty, does that mean I'll stop studying with you one day? Does that mean we'll never talk again? Is there any way for me to stay with you?"
Twilight has never used 'Majesty' to my knowledge in the show when one on one. She always uses 'Princess' when talking to Celestia directly. I think she may have used 'your majesty' in a group setting once or twice, but that'd be the limit of it.
Similarly, why is Celestia drawing the curtains, closing everything off? Adult ponies know she's ageless; she's not imparting a deep secret here. They're having a talk about death, before Twilight is ready to comprehend death. What is closing them off doing for us?
There's a solid core here, but one that still has tarnish and plenty of polish it can undergo, mostly on characterization. Make me feel 'Celestia' and 'Twilight' as characters more and you'll go much further in power.
>>Trick_Question
I don't think there needs be a direct answer; I do agree Celestia seems to be heavily implying an afterlife, but it's a filly conversation; it doesn't need 'Do we have souls?' and 'What happens when the universe runs out of energy?' as answers here. They're not really critical to this.
It may need 'Are alicorns truly unkillable?' because if they can die, then what's next isn't truly unattainable. So that question should be addressed somehow.
This came across to me as pretty weak. I'm not going to linger on it a lot, since much of what is important has been picked up already. It stands out as a rehash of an old trope, as Trick Question points out, but most of all, it doesn't answer the fundamental question, which is: why does Celestia have abandoned the idea of befriending new ponies when her "original" friends were dead?
Her choice seems to be either to give up friendship altogether because she'll survive anypony or to accept that her friends are "transient" and enjoy the time spent with them when they're alive. Given the way I read Celestia's character, the second option seems much more likely than the first you actually plumped for.
Her choice seems to be either to give up friendship altogether because she'll survive anypony or to accept that her friends are "transient" and enjoy the time spent with them when they're alive. Given the way I read Celestia's character, the second option seems much more likely than the first you actually plumped for.
>>Morning Sun
I didn't say there needed to be a direct answer. There needs to be more than there is, though.
Nothing in the story is sufficient to explain why I'm supposed to feel sad for Celestia. I'm expected to take "you should feel sad" at face value because the characters themselves are sad, which only makes the lack of information that much more glaring.
I didn't say there needed to be a direct answer. There needs to be more than there is, though.
Nothing in the story is sufficient to explain why I'm supposed to feel sad for Celestia. I'm expected to take "you should feel sad" at face value because the characters themselves are sad, which only makes the lack of information that much more glaring.
This really did not wow me. I’m not sure how old Twilight’s supposed to be for the majority of the story, but I’d expect her to have some concept of death, if only through encountering it in her reading. Extinct animals, for example. The conversation didn’t feel natural either, sometimes awkwardly phrased, sometimes sounding off-tone for the characters, and sometimes blaring the immortality blues right in my face. The framing device really doesn’t help in that last respect.
This definitely needs work, not least because matters of life and death aren’t the best topic to pick when you have less than a kiloword to work with. All things considered, you might be best served in having the conversation take place after that fateful Summer Sun Celebration. After all, why would a young Twilight care that Celestia didn’t have any friends?
This definitely needs work, not least because matters of life and death aren’t the best topic to pick when you have less than a kiloword to work with. All things considered, you might be best served in having the conversation take place after that fateful Summer Sun Celebration. After all, why would a young Twilight care that Celestia didn’t have any friends?
I'm having some fridge logic issues here. I mean, in my head Twilight was about CMC age when she met Celestia for the first time—and at the very least, she was old enough to know how to study for an exam. I really can't see a child that old failing to realize that Celestia is talking about death.
Age-related weirdness aside, this is definitely serviceable as a immortality blues fic. The thing is, for anyone like me who's been around since year two of the fandom, this is something we've seen a bunch of times before. If you had showed this to me four years ago, I think I'd be pretty touched. But as of now, the fact that I must have read scores of stories about this subject kinda takes the wind out of its sails.
I'd suggest expanding the story with a specific message in mind. Try to say something concrete and unique about the state of living forever, instead of simply pointing out a specific aspect where it would obviously be painful. Know your audience and what they'd expect, and try to give them something new.
Age-related weirdness aside, this is definitely serviceable as a immortality blues fic. The thing is, for anyone like me who's been around since year two of the fandom, this is something we've seen a bunch of times before. If you had showed this to me four years ago, I think I'd be pretty touched. But as of now, the fact that I must have read scores of stories about this subject kinda takes the wind out of its sails.
I'd suggest expanding the story with a specific message in mind. Try to say something concrete and unique about the state of living forever, instead of simply pointing out a specific aspect where it would obviously be painful. Know your audience and what they'd expect, and try to give them something new.