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>>CoffeeMinion
Take it from Twilight Velvet, it's a brutal market ;)
If you want to keep the ding on Petunia's parents, maybe they could be a little more dismissive-sounding than "we probably can't afford to do that"?
Have you read Ada Twist, Scientist? That's what comes to mind for me. Her parents aren't meanspirited or unreasonable, but they are facing down a unique and trying challenge from their very unique kid.
...And that's why I haven't quit my day job to write children's stories! :-P
Take it from Twilight Velvet, it's a brutal market ;)
If you want to keep the ding on Petunia's parents, maybe they could be a little more dismissive-sounding than "we probably can't afford to do that"?
Have you read Ada Twist, Scientist? That's what comes to mind for me. Her parents aren't meanspirited or unreasonable, but they are facing down a unique and trying challenge from their very unique kid.
Friendship 101 Retrospective
Thanks for your comments, everyone! Most Controversial, huh? I'm surprised this flat out didn't work for so many of you; it sounded like such an innocuous concept to me. Then again, I scored Top Contender picks from Horizon and CoffeeMinion, and that’s a definite honor.
With only a couple hours of writing time to put towards this thing, I wanted to do something short and self-contained, something I knew I could properly flesh out in such limited time. I still didn't get a chance to edit it, alas.
Anyway, I’m going to expand the conversation and the party, and add at least one other scene. I’m not planning on Twilight Velvet being a meat-eating, jugular-hungry tiger mom though, she just has some practiced negotiating skills that she’ll gladly bring home from the office… but she might have met her match.
I’m not sure when I’ll have this finished and posted, but hopefully before February hits… Pony is strictly a weekend project until I can finish some some original fiction stuff.
Thanks for your comments, everyone! Most Controversial, huh? I'm surprised this flat out didn't work for so many of you; it sounded like such an innocuous concept to me. Then again, I scored Top Contender picks from Horizon and CoffeeMinion, and that’s a definite honor.
With only a couple hours of writing time to put towards this thing, I wanted to do something short and self-contained, something I knew I could properly flesh out in such limited time. I still didn't get a chance to edit it, alas.
Anyway, I’m going to expand the conversation and the party, and add at least one other scene. I’m not planning on Twilight Velvet being a meat-eating, jugular-hungry tiger mom though, she just has some practiced negotiating skills that she’ll gladly bring home from the office… but she might have met her match.
I’m not sure when I’ll have this finished and posted, but hopefully before February hits… Pony is strictly a weekend project until I can finish some some original fiction stuff.
>>AndrewRogue
Pfft, tomorrow? Sleep, buddy. Sleep while you can, whenever you can. The next month or so is going to blur together.
Pfft, tomorrow? Sleep, buddy. Sleep while you can, whenever you can. The next month or so is going to blur together.
I really enjoyed this one. I do think there are some unfortunate tonal shifts, though. In the first few scenes I thought she was going to rope in half the ponies in town until, possibly by accident, she winds up achieving her dream or something equally good. It has that sort of children’s story aesthetic. I’m not saying her getting tripped up by genuine reality is a bad thing, it was just a bit of a jolt, something you could probably soften a bit for for the reader.
I’ve got two minor issues with Zecora’s appearance. First, her presence is unexplained. Her saying that so-and-so told her about Petunia's dream would suffice. Second, I don’t buy her chastisement of Petunia’s parents. They gave a non-committal answer for one single reason; the other reasons came from other ponies. They just don’t factor into the story enough to be on the receiving end of a moral lesson. Why not end in Petunia’s perspective? She’s the one who, as Zecora said, learned something pivotal. That also would let you return to the child-like, anything-is-possible tone from the beginning.
I’ve got two minor issues with Zecora’s appearance. First, her presence is unexplained. Her saying that so-and-so told her about Petunia's dream would suffice. Second, I don’t buy her chastisement of Petunia’s parents. They gave a non-committal answer for one single reason; the other reasons came from other ponies. They just don’t factor into the story enough to be on the receiving end of a moral lesson. Why not end in Petunia’s perspective? She’s the one who, as Zecora said, learned something pivotal. That also would let you return to the child-like, anything-is-possible tone from the beginning.
Ah, Eldrich comedy done refreshingly right. This was just great. I only have a few suggestions that don’t appear to have been made already:
-Sunset’s explanation of what was going on when ‘it’ appeared was gorgeous, so much so that it was kind of out of place. It’s like she’s reciting a prepared speech, far removed from the emotion of actually thinking through what’s she’s saying. I’d say it’s okay as is if that sort of thing happened throughout the story for comedic effect, but it stood out to me the way things are now.
-Flash making an appearance, possibly just a traumatized look from across the street, would be great. I’m guessing he spent a week sleeping with the light on, and just thinking about girls, let alone Sunset, reminds him too much of his recurring nightmares.
-the robbers are throwaway characters, but it feels like a waste that we don’t get a better mental image of them, especially now that they’ve been scarred for life
-I’d like to see something else happen at the end, something more jarring than the coffee pot, something that says Sunset’s troubles aren’t quite over… maybe the eye is in Flash’s closet now :trollestia:
-Sunset’s explanation of what was going on when ‘it’ appeared was gorgeous, so much so that it was kind of out of place. It’s like she’s reciting a prepared speech, far removed from the emotion of actually thinking through what’s she’s saying. I’d say it’s okay as is if that sort of thing happened throughout the story for comedic effect, but it stood out to me the way things are now.
-Flash making an appearance, possibly just a traumatized look from across the street, would be great. I’m guessing he spent a week sleeping with the light on, and just thinking about girls, let alone Sunset, reminds him too much of his recurring nightmares.
-the robbers are throwaway characters, but it feels like a waste that we don’t get a better mental image of them, especially now that they’ve been scarred for life
-I’d like to see something else happen at the end, something more jarring than the coffee pot, something that says Sunset’s troubles aren’t quite over… maybe the eye is in Flash’s closet now :trollestia:
This is an impressive adventure to weave in so few words; kudos for that.
I keep my complaints brief, since most of them have been covered by others already:
The character voices could use some touching up, which I say without reservation even though Cadence et all rarely appear on the show. Her saying "my bad" is perhaps the strongest example.
Her pleasant wittiness makes me question the story's tone. The actual conflict is so wonderfully dark and sinister, but it's buried in this web of jokes (funny ones to boot) and one-liners that make the overall story seem so unnaturally lighthearted.
The ending doesn't carry the emotional weight it needs to. This isn't a 'happy' ending, really. It's perhaps the healthiest option possible, but the characters aren't showing the inherent sadness in it. Maybe this could be rectified by showing the immediate aftermath when Sunburst wakes up in the presence of everyone else.
I keep my complaints brief, since most of them have been covered by others already:
The character voices could use some touching up, which I say without reservation even though Cadence et all rarely appear on the show. Her saying "my bad" is perhaps the strongest example.
Her pleasant wittiness makes me question the story's tone. The actual conflict is so wonderfully dark and sinister, but it's buried in this web of jokes (funny ones to boot) and one-liners that make the overall story seem so unnaturally lighthearted.
The ending doesn't carry the emotional weight it needs to. This isn't a 'happy' ending, really. It's perhaps the healthiest option possible, but the characters aren't showing the inherent sadness in it. Maybe this could be rectified by showing the immediate aftermath when Sunburst wakes up in the presence of everyone else.
I love Twilight Velvet in this. I wish we'd seen some more Twilight Sparkle, though. She and her problems are largely unseen by the reader, even if we all can buy into her having issues with friendship.
Twilight Velvet's little conference ended a little too quickly for me. It doesn't need to be twice the length or something, but a few more lines between the courteous bow and throwing herself across the desk would be apropos. Surely she's given this whole interview thorough consideration, and has more things to ask about what daughter's unique school experience will be like.
Seeing more of the party would be nice, too, particularly Celestia's interactions with Twilight. Why did she bring only guards and not some of the school or palace staff that Twilight will interact with regularly?
Twilight Velvet's little conference ended a little too quickly for me. It doesn't need to be twice the length or something, but a few more lines between the courteous bow and throwing herself across the desk would be apropos. Surely she's given this whole interview thorough consideration, and has more things to ask about what daughter's unique school experience will be like.
Seeing more of the party would be nice, too, particularly Celestia's interactions with Twilight. Why did she bring only guards and not some of the school or palace staff that Twilight will interact with regularly?
>>BlazzingInferno
I'd like to add that I'd gladly pre-read your next draft, on the off chance you think I could help in any fashion.
I'd like to add that I'd gladly pre-read your next draft, on the off chance you think I could help in any fashion.
Masterful work as always, I-think-I-know-who. I want this to be longer, if only to feature you know who rather than just referring to her as an unspeakable byword; seeing the nature of the puppet master, be that naive or malicious, would be fantastic.
I'd also strongly advise having Cadence be immediately skeptical of Discord's calm manner in the beginning. It put me off immediately before I realized what's going on here, and honestly Discord is such a complex, oft-bungled character in the land of fanfic that I initially underestimated how good you actually are at writing every character here.
A stronger ending would be nice, too. Even if you intend to leave off in exactly this spot, which in and of itself is satisfying, they (Discord especially) could talk over their stances on the issue a little more.
I can't wait to read the revised version!
I'd also strongly advise having Cadence be immediately skeptical of Discord's calm manner in the beginning. It put me off immediately before I realized what's going on here, and honestly Discord is such a complex, oft-bungled character in the land of fanfic that I initially underestimated how good you actually are at writing every character here.
A stronger ending would be nice, too. Even if you intend to leave off in exactly this spot, which in and of itself is satisfying, they (Discord especially) could talk over their stances on the issue a little more.
I can't wait to read the revised version!
For all the humor you've thrown at us here, I expected a good laugh from the last line. I'd consider that revision priority one.
I'll echo what others have said about the POV shifts being jarring. This was a fun ride, but the tone felt too inconsistent for me. The more serious middle just seems to come out of nowhere and vanish just as quickly. In a way I wanted the confrontation with Celestia to be a more serious version of the one with Spike, where Starlight gets her night of work because Celestia considers it her special way of grieving... but then again I wouldn't touch the line with Celestia 'helping' with the spell; that was solid gold.
The happy ending felt a little too easily won. For the reader, that ten minutes goes by in a heartbeat. Why not milk it a little more and let Celestia zap her a couple more times at her request, all to the utter horror of Spike.
I'll echo what others have said about the POV shifts being jarring. This was a fun ride, but the tone felt too inconsistent for me. The more serious middle just seems to come out of nowhere and vanish just as quickly. In a way I wanted the confrontation with Celestia to be a more serious version of the one with Spike, where Starlight gets her night of work because Celestia considers it her special way of grieving... but then again I wouldn't touch the line with Celestia 'helping' with the spell; that was solid gold.
The happy ending felt a little too easily won. For the reader, that ten minutes goes by in a heartbeat. Why not milk it a little more and let Celestia zap her a couple more times at her request, all to the utter horror of Spike.
>>georg
I think that's a great idea, but I do agree it'll take some work to pull off effectively. You'll have to balance how.. for lack of a better term, crazy this makes Celestia seem. It could land anywhere from her being seriously delusional to masterfully predicting the reactions of others.
My favorite and upvote will be waiting :)
I think that's a great idea, but I do agree it'll take some work to pull off effectively. You'll have to balance how.. for lack of a better term, crazy this makes Celestia seem. It could land anywhere from her being seriously delusional to masterfully predicting the reactions of others.
My favorite and upvote will be waiting :)
>>Trick_Question
Double nonsense! Your feedback is valuable, doubly so if it runs counter to what everyone else says. That's why we workshop, and that's how we all become better writers :heart:
Double nonsense! Your feedback is valuable, doubly so if it runs counter to what everyone else says. That's why we workshop, and that's how we all become better writers :heart:
>>Trick_Question
I send Roger a fimfic PM with a link to your comment. I'm not sure what the best way to contact him is
I send Roger a fimfic PM with a link to your comment. I'm not sure what the best way to contact him is
The writing here is very solid, but I have some weighty complaints:
-The main character doesn't earn or learn anything. Sure he might have misgivings and worries internally, but when it's time to act he doesn't fail or even stumble. Similarly, he has a very humble background and a low paying job, but his word choice (which extends beyond dialogue since this is in first person) is very advanced. All of that put together makes this into Mary Sue/wish fulfillment.
-The 'scene' they act out is way too brief. I know you're pushing against the 8k word limit, but this is a key point to expand, and I don't mean making it more graphic. They move from banter to bed in what feels like seconds.
-There's the slightest hint that the main character is going to change things up, to give her 'what she needs' versus 'what she wants' which again isn't elaborated on, unfortunately. The problem there is the main character doesn't believability have that social/psychological skill set; he lives to get laid to the point that little else matters, what's he know about relationships and a balanced lifestyle?
Here are some ideas on how to address this:
-Make the main character more nuanced. Show how emotionally in tune he can be with others around him to get his way. Similarly, does he spend his spare time working on how he presents himself, how he speaks, etc?
-Make the main character stumble. Make him pull himself back from the edge. There are plenty of places for this to happen, but I think the key one is during that 'scene' at the end. Yes he figures out what to do, but it doesn't have to be so automatic. She's been doing this so long she obviously has a modicum of tolerance as far as 'breaking in the new guy' goes.
-Make his final intentions clearer. Is he just going to go along with the status quo? If so then I confess this story is a letdown for me, because nothing about the dynamic is changing, save for the players involved. If he is going to change things in some way, like helping her overcome her clearly extreme problems, give him the background, the clout, and the misgivings that would go along with it.
Sorry to prattle on. You've clearly got some writerly skills, author. I hope you walk away from this knowing that. I couldn't and wouldn't have taken the time to deep dive into your character's motivations if that wasn't the case.
-The main character doesn't earn or learn anything. Sure he might have misgivings and worries internally, but when it's time to act he doesn't fail or even stumble. Similarly, he has a very humble background and a low paying job, but his word choice (which extends beyond dialogue since this is in first person) is very advanced. All of that put together makes this into Mary Sue/wish fulfillment.
-The 'scene' they act out is way too brief. I know you're pushing against the 8k word limit, but this is a key point to expand, and I don't mean making it more graphic. They move from banter to bed in what feels like seconds.
-There's the slightest hint that the main character is going to change things up, to give her 'what she needs' versus 'what she wants' which again isn't elaborated on, unfortunately. The problem there is the main character doesn't believability have that social/psychological skill set; he lives to get laid to the point that little else matters, what's he know about relationships and a balanced lifestyle?
Here are some ideas on how to address this:
-Make the main character more nuanced. Show how emotionally in tune he can be with others around him to get his way. Similarly, does he spend his spare time working on how he presents himself, how he speaks, etc?
-Make the main character stumble. Make him pull himself back from the edge. There are plenty of places for this to happen, but I think the key one is during that 'scene' at the end. Yes he figures out what to do, but it doesn't have to be so automatic. She's been doing this so long she obviously has a modicum of tolerance as far as 'breaking in the new guy' goes.
-Make his final intentions clearer. Is he just going to go along with the status quo? If so then I confess this story is a letdown for me, because nothing about the dynamic is changing, save for the players involved. If he is going to change things in some way, like helping her overcome her clearly extreme problems, give him the background, the clout, and the misgivings that would go along with it.
Sorry to prattle on. You've clearly got some writerly skills, author. I hope you walk away from this knowing that. I couldn't and wouldn't have taken the time to deep dive into your character's motivations if that wasn't the case.
I know this whole concept has been written again and again… but I loved this all the same. This is a pleasantly complex, fallible Celestia and a suitably adorable young Twilight (which is really saying something considering how few words you put to that use).
My complaints are few:
The initial mention of Cadence felt forced to me. This is already a description-heavy story (and justifiably so), but I’d like to see a spot of action right there, perhaps her seeing something that reminds her of Cadence or of her sudden appearance.
This story isn’t very long, but you could tighten up the prose a bit all the same to keep things moving (and thus keep the reader’s interest). Once Celestia and Twilight start walking, things really picked up.
My complaints are few:
The initial mention of Cadence felt forced to me. This is already a description-heavy story (and justifiably so), but I’d like to see a spot of action right there, perhaps her seeing something that reminds her of Cadence or of her sudden appearance.
This story isn’t very long, but you could tighten up the prose a bit all the same to keep things moving (and thus keep the reader’s interest). Once Celestia and Twilight start walking, things really picked up.
The opening scene takes way too long to make its point; I think it’s safe to assume the average reader has seen Crusaders of the Lost Mark. Get to plot rolling (ie present Sweetie’s doubt) more quickly.
This whole thing needs a solid editing pass to catch missing or misused words and to make the dialogue a little more natural. I don’t hold that against you, though. This is a writeoff, not a thesis defense. What you meant to say was always clear enough.
I’m worried that you’ve run afoul of Rarity’s canon cutie mark story, but I can’t be sure without rewatching the episode. If so, that’s a pity because I like the spin you put on it. You could probably reword Rarity’s explanation slightly to make it clearer that Rarity is telling a more complete version of the cutie mark story she gave on the show (maybe Sweetie Belle even calls her out for ‘embellishing’ the whole thing the first time she told it).
This is a nice story, and adds a pleasant bit of abstraction to cutie marks. It edges on making them a little too abstract, though. Rarity’s quip about Cheerilee for example makes it sound like cutie marks (or at least some cutie marks) don’t really mean much of anything. Rarity’s story is an excellent version of how a mark can mean something important but not everything; if that feeling was infused in the other examples (for the adults anyway) it would help.
This whole thing needs a solid editing pass to catch missing or misused words and to make the dialogue a little more natural. I don’t hold that against you, though. This is a writeoff, not a thesis defense. What you meant to say was always clear enough.
I’m worried that you’ve run afoul of Rarity’s canon cutie mark story, but I can’t be sure without rewatching the episode. If so, that’s a pity because I like the spin you put on it. You could probably reword Rarity’s explanation slightly to make it clearer that Rarity is telling a more complete version of the cutie mark story she gave on the show (maybe Sweetie Belle even calls her out for ‘embellishing’ the whole thing the first time she told it).
This is a nice story, and adds a pleasant bit of abstraction to cutie marks. It edges on making them a little too abstract, though. Rarity’s quip about Cheerilee for example makes it sound like cutie marks (or at least some cutie marks) don’t really mean much of anything. Rarity’s story is an excellent version of how a mark can mean something important but not everything; if that feeling was infused in the other examples (for the adults anyway) it would help.
A year ago, when I participated in the writeoffs regularly, I got raked over the coals repeatedly whenever Spike and anything approaching romance appeared in the same story… I wish you better luck with that than I. I peddle my romances elsewhere these days.
At first I thought they were playing poker; either way it goes on a tad too long. Their interplay is nice, but I confess the word choices for Spike don’t feel quite right, and it didn’t improve as the story progressed. I understand that he’s older now, but it still doesn’t feel quite like an evolution of the on-screen Spike. There isn’t much in the way of body language from him either.
About the time they started packing up the game, you started dropping some downright telly descriptions in the midst of the action. Descriptions aren’t bad by any means, but you could show stuff like this:
That paragraph could easily involve Starlight swishing the pudding around in her mouth, comparing its taste and texture to various other dishes she’s had and scanning the kitchen shelves as she tries to puzzle out the mystery ingredient.
Likewise, the explaining of Starlight’s relationship to Spike is just that; a textbook explanation. Her reaction immediately after she asks him out is better; her panic comes through in the prose.
Overall, I feel like the heart of this story is Starlight’s uncertainty, her asking Spike (and herself) why. I think you could tighten this up a great deal, considering how much verbiage you’ve devoted to her internal thought process versus her actual interaction with Spike, be that through speech, sight, or action.
At first I thought they were playing poker; either way it goes on a tad too long. Their interplay is nice, but I confess the word choices for Spike don’t feel quite right, and it didn’t improve as the story progressed. I understand that he’s older now, but it still doesn’t feel quite like an evolution of the on-screen Spike. There isn’t much in the way of body language from him either.
About the time they started packing up the game, you started dropping some downright telly descriptions in the midst of the action. Descriptions aren’t bad by any means, but you could show stuff like this:
The vanilla pudding with cherries tasted just as good as Starlight imagined it would. It had just the right level of sweetness, but there was something else there. Something she couldn’t pinpoint right away, but with every bite it became more evident.
That paragraph could easily involve Starlight swishing the pudding around in her mouth, comparing its taste and texture to various other dishes she’s had and scanning the kitchen shelves as she tries to puzzle out the mystery ingredient.
Likewise, the explaining of Starlight’s relationship to Spike is just that; a textbook explanation. Her reaction immediately after she asks him out is better; her panic comes through in the prose.
Overall, I feel like the heart of this story is Starlight’s uncertainty, her asking Spike (and herself) why. I think you could tighten this up a great deal, considering how much verbiage you’ve devoted to her internal thought process versus her actual interaction with Spike, be that through speech, sight, or action.
The portal backstory is an infodump. Even turning it into a genuine flashback would be an improvement. Overall the writing could stand to show more and tell less. Take a look at how San Palomino organically crafts its world.
I'm really not your target audience. I don't mix ponies with guns and war. Still the twist was an interesting one, as was how Celestia acted through the whole aftermath. It struck me as too casual and familiar, but then again that's pure opinion.
The last joke needs some revising; you're giving the punchline and then dragging on for another paragraph. Flip the last two paragraphs and then make any related revisions.
I'm really not your target audience. I don't mix ponies with guns and war. Still the twist was an interesting one, as was how Celestia acted through the whole aftermath. It struck me as too casual and familiar, but then again that's pure opinion.
The last joke needs some revising; you're giving the punchline and then dragging on for another paragraph. Flip the last two paragraphs and then make any related revisions.
The central idea here about the castle is genius. I'm less enthusiastic about some of its presentation. For starters, I felt like Twilight's comfort with routines was underutilized and dismissed too quickly at the end. The first scene was also way too long, at first I thought the entire story was going to be about Twilight's quiet, normal routine; you could illustrate her neurosis in fewer words.
I was surprised at how confrontational things got with Cadence, but that's probably okay as is, given the extraordinary circumstance. Some more interplay between these two, considering they’re old friends and yet now their loyalties are divided, would be nice.
Finally, the ending feels... unsatisfactory. Honestly I wish someone had brought up the point that maybe the castle only used to belong to the crystal empire. They lost it, maybe by bungling friendship or something. It reappeared in its own somewhere else; the torch was passed to Twilight. Obviously I'm getting a tad upset about this, so kudos to you for gaining my emotional investment. Twilight let the crystal ponies (and Cadence) get their way with almost no logical reasoning, and no investigation into the magical underpinnings of how they ended up where they are. That’s not the Twilight I know.
I was surprised at how confrontational things got with Cadence, but that's probably okay as is, given the extraordinary circumstance. Some more interplay between these two, considering they’re old friends and yet now their loyalties are divided, would be nice.
Finally, the ending feels... unsatisfactory. Honestly I wish someone had brought up the point that maybe the castle only used to belong to the crystal empire. They lost it, maybe by bungling friendship or something. It reappeared in its own somewhere else; the torch was passed to Twilight. Obviously I'm getting a tad upset about this, so kudos to you for gaining my emotional investment. Twilight let the crystal ponies (and Cadence) get their way with almost no logical reasoning, and no investigation into the magical underpinnings of how they ended up where they are. That’s not the Twilight I know.
At the beginning of Trixie and Starlight's conversation, I really wanted to see Trixie drop into first person to illustrate their friendship vs. when the cards come out and she's using her stage presence to astound and amaze.
This was a good story, but it was over too fast. The bond that led Trixie to do what she did at the end wasn't shown enough, and neither was Starlight's newfound despair. The same can be said for the climax, when it looks like all is lost the characters need to react more.
Developing Blackstone a bit would be nice, too. How did she know when she knew? Has she done this before? What about Trixie's sacrifice made her relent?
This was a good story, but it was over too fast. The bond that led Trixie to do what she did at the end wasn't shown enough, and neither was Starlight's newfound despair. The same can be said for the climax, when it looks like all is lost the characters need to react more.
Developing Blackstone a bit would be nice, too. How did she know when she knew? Has she done this before? What about Trixie's sacrifice made her relent?
This is quite a ride; quiet and lulling but never ever a drag. Well done. That being said, my list of unanswered questions is pretty long:
What drove Luna to this?
What caused her to wake?
What drove the mane six (Twilight in particular) to side with her over Celestia?
Why can they suddenly have children in the eternal dream?
A quick visual of what remains of the lands of Equestria would be nice too.
What drove Luna to this?
What caused her to wake?
What drove the mane six (Twilight in particular) to side with her over Celestia?
Why can they suddenly have children in the eternal dream?
A quick visual of what remains of the lands of Equestria would be nice too.
Paging WIP