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Show rules for this event
Well, this round is coming to its end. Almost everyone has done his recap of his own story and we're talking about the future contests. But before the next contest in a few days, I wanted to say a few words.
So, as last words for this round, I'll thank RogerDodger for providing us a free environment where we can have these contests, an environment he keeps on improving.
Another shout out for our fellow podcasters who take on their time to offer us a few hours of discussion on some of the entries, that usually lead to discussion to litterature.
And last, but not least, a big shout out to all the writers and the reviewers for obvious reasons.
That'll be all.
Take care of yourself and your folks.
So, as last words for this round, I'll thank RogerDodger for providing us a free environment where we can have these contests, an environment he keeps on improving.
Another shout out for our fellow podcasters who take on their time to offer us a few hours of discussion on some of the entries, that usually lead to discussion to litterature.
And last, but not least, a big shout out to all the writers and the reviewers for obvious reasons.
That'll be all.
Take care of yourself and your folks.
>>RogerDodger
I didn't participate in the art part, so just the first question for me:
Should we do this again? If so, how often?
I would really like this to become a regular thing. Every other round seems like a good measure, but I think it can be turned down a bit if people get burned out (I expect this to be much more taxing on people that want to participate in both arting and writing).
For me, having more to go by than a simple sentence really helped getting creative. Trying to come up with an idea from a regular prompt sometimes feels like beating my head against a wall, but I think I could've written several stories based on the various art pieces given enough time.
I didn't participate in the art part, so just the first question for me:
Should we do this again? If so, how often?
I would really like this to become a regular thing. Every other round seems like a good measure, but I think it can be turned down a bit if people get burned out (I expect this to be much more taxing on people that want to participate in both arting and writing).
For me, having more to go by than a simple sentence really helped getting creative. Trying to come up with an idea from a regular prompt sometimes feels like beating my head against a wall, but I think I could've written several stories based on the various art pieces given enough time.
>>wYvern
I think the Pony Short rounds might be the best time to do art. As others noted, art might not really work for Original rounds given how wide open those are, and Pony Mini might be excessively restricted by a small number of art pieces. But for this one, I thought it was a nice addition.
Maybe even every other Pony Short would be good. I dunno.
I think the Pony Short rounds might be the best time to do art. As others noted, art might not really work for Original rounds given how wide open those are, and Pony Mini might be excessively restricted by a small number of art pieces. But for this one, I thought it was a nice addition.
Maybe even every other Pony Short would be good. I dunno.
Personally, I don't think that the art rounds would go badly in the Original Fiction write-offs. Sure we don't have concrete characters to use, but looking at the submitted art for this round a lot of people used either vaguely-characterized background ponies or original/undetermined characters anyways. I don't think the greater freedom will hurt the artists, and I don't think it'll make it harder than usual to create a piece that isn't too specific. I mean, it might actually be easier to avoid locking a picture into only one story when we don't already have preconceived notions of the characters being portrayed. There's so much you can draw when you don't have to include ponies or pony related things, too! You could just do a background, or do something more abstract, or create your own creatures, or anything. I feel like, if anything, that would inspire more ideas.
As for burnout, that is a good point. If we did these too frequently, there's certainly a chance of submissions going down. Maybe one art round for every five write-offs? So since this was the FiM Short round, the next drawing round would be the Original Mini round after the one coming up. That way the drawing rounds wouldn't be too close together, and we'd get to draw for every category.
As for burnout, that is a good point. If we did these too frequently, there's certainly a chance of submissions going down. Maybe one art round for every five write-offs? So since this was the FiM Short round, the next drawing round would be the Original Mini round after the one coming up. That way the drawing rounds wouldn't be too close together, and we'd get to draw for every category.
>>CoffeeMinion
I believe the "art might not really work for original rounds" hypothesis is something that deserves at least 1 experiment to get some empirical data. If we look at the top 7 of the art round this time, only 2 really use known characters from MLP. I'm with >>shinygiratinaz on this one.
>>Haze
I wonder why you seem to think writers are the original bunch here and artists aren't. Original art is a thing, and although I agree that there might be more vague pieces, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as shown by the voting turnout.
Also, is art really restricting the creative process of writers, or is it propelling it? I assume having art would lead to trouble for writers that use writeoffs to turn already existing story ideas they have into actual writing, but for me who tries to come up with something fresh each time, it worked wonders. Hadn't it been for Automating Friendship, I never would've come up with the idea of connecting something futuristic/robotic with the Rising From the Ashes prompt.
I guess hard evidence whether having an additional step of abstraction going from prompt -> art -> story instead of going from prompt to story directly will lead to a larger variety or a preselection of ideas is hard to come by. I think though that it is largely dependent on a lot of factors, like art turnout and artwork specificity concerning characters and setting. That is mostly dependent on the artists participating.
As I see it now, the people that submited art were all (except for 1 and maybe a few others disguising as anonymous) people that usually participated in writing. If it were possible to get more artists on here that actually come for the art rounds (instead of taking it as an extra), there might be bigger turnouts and more artist variety as well.
I think it turned out great this round, and I think it can with original rounds as well. I certainly wouldn't knock it down without trying.
I... don't really get that. I actually think minifics share a lot of similarities with art. The medium doesn't allow for traditional storytelling formats, and it's hard to get in more than one fleshed-out scene... just like with art, unless you count comic panels. Like with art, minifics are about condensing an idea or a concept into something that is expressive at a glance. I don't see why joining the two should fail.
But again, I think the theoretical discussion might be interesting, but won't replace the epmirical data of just giving it a go.
I believe the "art might not really work for original rounds" hypothesis is something that deserves at least 1 experiment to get some empirical data. If we look at the top 7 of the art round this time, only 2 really use known characters from MLP. I'm with >>shinygiratinaz on this one.
>>Haze
Authors can write about anything they choose (potentially for publishing), and using artwork will unnecessarily restrict that. On the other side, artists would have too little restriction, since they can't draw fanart of recognizable characters. The art might become more vague or even abstract. I suspect it would be less fun than it was here.
I wonder why you seem to think writers are the original bunch here and artists aren't. Original art is a thing, and although I agree that there might be more vague pieces, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as shown by the voting turnout.
Also, is art really restricting the creative process of writers, or is it propelling it? I assume having art would lead to trouble for writers that use writeoffs to turn already existing story ideas they have into actual writing, but for me who tries to come up with something fresh each time, it worked wonders. Hadn't it been for Automating Friendship, I never would've come up with the idea of connecting something futuristic/robotic with the Rising From the Ashes prompt.
I guess hard evidence whether having an additional step of abstraction going from prompt -> art -> story instead of going from prompt to story directly will lead to a larger variety or a preselection of ideas is hard to come by. I think though that it is largely dependent on a lot of factors, like art turnout and artwork specificity concerning characters and setting. That is mostly dependent on the artists participating.
As I see it now, the people that submited art were all (except for 1 and maybe a few others disguising as anonymous) people that usually participated in writing. If it were possible to get more artists on here that actually come for the art rounds (instead of taking it as an extra), there might be bigger turnouts and more artist variety as well.
I think it turned out great this round, and I think it can with original rounds as well. I certainly wouldn't knock it down without trying.
Minifics work better with minimalism. Artwork complicates that.
I... don't really get that. I actually think minifics share a lot of similarities with art. The medium doesn't allow for traditional storytelling formats, and it's hard to get in more than one fleshed-out scene... just like with art, unless you count comic panels. Like with art, minifics are about condensing an idea or a concept into something that is expressive at a glance. I don't see why joining the two should fail.
But again, I think the theoretical discussion might be interesting, but won't replace the epmirical data of just giving it a go.
>>wYvern
3 of them. But why stop at 7 specifically? Why not poor #8? Or all of them, regardless of rank? The ranking didn't determine which stories were produced.
I wonder why you're putting words in my mouth. I found this pretty insulting.
The conflict I see here is that the original rounds were created to go "hey now you have to write something that's not based on someone else's idea", and putting an art round to that is going back to authors writing based on a picture. Not quite a copyrighted work, but still changing the purpose of the rounds. Making it more about the art contest and less about the original fiction process. Drawing any character in a picture is still partly designing a character for the story. Or designing a setting, or vehicle, or object, etc.
It's still a restriction, though it's not necessarily positive or negative. Do the writers want this, when previous original rounds had no restriction at all besides prompt? It's up to them. I kinda see it as "their round"
That lack of restriction gets passed on to the artists instead. I never said that artists "are not original" as you claim, but there'll be less focus. Some drawings this round had no characters, but still used visual symbols and icons from MLP. Also quite a few were telling jokes, again based on the show. those shared elements will disappear, which is why I think the atmosphere will turn out different.
Maybe not worse, depending on individual preferences, but different. If people still want to try it, I say go for it.
to clarify what I mean about complicating the writing: the artwork becomes that one good scene. in the short stories, I liked how a lot of them used the art as a starting point, and developed them to somewhere unexpected. none of them felt the same.
it's restrictive, though I can see how some would enjoy that as a challenge. I just personally see minific rounds working better as, "here's a few words as a prompt, now go wild" and then we get 50-100 entries. So again I'm not against it if most people want to try, but I'm pessimistic.
If we look at the top 7 of the art round this time, only 2 really use known characters from MLP
3 of them. But why stop at 7 specifically? Why not poor #8? Or all of them, regardless of rank? The ranking didn't determine which stories were produced.
I wonder why you seem to think writers are the original bunch here and artists aren't.
I wonder why you're putting words in my mouth. I found this pretty insulting.
The conflict I see here is that the original rounds were created to go "hey now you have to write something that's not based on someone else's idea", and putting an art round to that is going back to authors writing based on a picture. Not quite a copyrighted work, but still changing the purpose of the rounds. Making it more about the art contest and less about the original fiction process. Drawing any character in a picture is still partly designing a character for the story. Or designing a setting, or vehicle, or object, etc.
It's still a restriction, though it's not necessarily positive or negative. Do the writers want this, when previous original rounds had no restriction at all besides prompt? It's up to them. I kinda see it as "their round"
That lack of restriction gets passed on to the artists instead. I never said that artists "are not original" as you claim, but there'll be less focus. Some drawings this round had no characters, but still used visual symbols and icons from MLP. Also quite a few were telling jokes, again based on the show. those shared elements will disappear, which is why I think the atmosphere will turn out different.
Maybe not worse, depending on individual preferences, but different. If people still want to try it, I say go for it.
The medium [minifics] doesn't allow for traditional storytelling formats, and it's hard to get in more than one fleshed-out scene...
to clarify what I mean about complicating the writing: the artwork becomes that one good scene. in the short stories, I liked how a lot of them used the art as a starting point, and developed them to somewhere unexpected. none of them felt the same.
it's restrictive, though I can see how some would enjoy that as a challenge. I just personally see minific rounds working better as, "here's a few words as a prompt, now go wild" and then we get 50-100 entries. So again I'm not against it if most people want to try, but I'm pessimistic.
>>Haze
Which one besides Bonfire Lit and Pyrotechnics? I chose top 7 because that makes the top 5 from unique artists. Looking at all of them and counting was too much of a hazzle for the argument I was making TBH.
*sigh*
Haze. Dear Haze. I did not mean to insult you. I respect you as an artist, a writer, an individual. What we have here is something I've encountered more than I'd like, and I think it's a cultural difference thing.
You see, there's this American saying that goes something like "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all," right? That concept is absolutely alien to me. I grew up in an environment that went by the maxims "who's right has to start the argument", and "many enemies, much honor." These may sound like taken from Klingon to you, but they're actually German sayings.
When I come here then, I turn my confrontational and blunt ways down to about 30%. I have to turn it down so much, I sometimes just say nothing because I don't know how to sugarcoat my opinion sufficiently. This is very tiresome, and sometimes things slip past my filter.
"I wonder why you seem to think writers are the original bunch here and artists aren't." is maybe up to 70%. "Wondering" means it is wondrous, i.e. something I would not expect you to think. "Seem" emphasizes that by adding ambiguity, and I used "think" as apposed to "said" because I cannot possibly know what you think, which means that all I'm saying is speculation on my part.
What I actually thought was "Haze just said XY. WTF? That's wrong!", and were I someplace else, that's just the way I'd said it.
So when you still manage to take offense to what I actually wrote, I feel like flinging my laptop through the window and calling it quits. It can feel insulting to have people imply you're trying to insult them when you're actually trying to avoid it, see? So thank you for editing your answer, I hate being capslocked at.
See, I always thought it was more about just doing non-MLP things. Your words actually made me see though how the far greater freedom of the original round might be hampered by even vague art. But, like I said, I think this is more a problem for people that go into rounds with an idea already in place. If that's what the original rounds are for, why not get rid of the prompt altogether?
I'm not an artist, so I don't know if the freedom getting passed onto them would make them happy or not.
That this would shift the purpose of the round towards artists doing original art is a given. I wonder if that's bad, though? Right now, this group is more-or-less a pure writing group, with a few also doing art. If the group wants to stay like this, I can understand not wanting to give away the 'power' to the artists, but would be a fair thing if there were more artists without an interest in writing themselves to join in the future.
That is a fair point and I think I haven't thought this through thoroughly. Having a piece of art basically represent everything that would be possible to be expressed in a minific does restrict a hellova lot. Hmm... might still try it, but I see now why it might be problematic.
3 of them. But why stop at 7 specifically? Why not poor #8? Or all of them, regardless of rank? The ranking didn't determine which stories were produced.
Which one besides Bonfire Lit and Pyrotechnics? I chose top 7 because that makes the top 5 from unique artists. Looking at all of them and counting was too much of a hazzle for the argument I was making TBH.
I wonder why you seem to think writers are the original bunch here and artists aren't.
I wonder why you're putting words in my mouth. I found this pretty insulting.
*sigh*
Haze. Dear Haze. I did not mean to insult you. I respect you as an artist, a writer, an individual. What we have here is something I've encountered more than I'd like, and I think it's a cultural difference thing.
You see, there's this American saying that goes something like "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all," right? That concept is absolutely alien to me. I grew up in an environment that went by the maxims "who's right has to start the argument", and "many enemies, much honor." These may sound like taken from Klingon to you, but they're actually German sayings.
When I come here then, I turn my confrontational and blunt ways down to about 30%. I have to turn it down so much, I sometimes just say nothing because I don't know how to sugarcoat my opinion sufficiently. This is very tiresome, and sometimes things slip past my filter.
"I wonder why you seem to think writers are the original bunch here and artists aren't." is maybe up to 70%. "Wondering" means it is wondrous, i.e. something I would not expect you to think. "Seem" emphasizes that by adding ambiguity, and I used "think" as apposed to "said" because I cannot possibly know what you think, which means that all I'm saying is speculation on my part.
What I actually thought was "Haze just said XY. WTF? That's wrong!", and were I someplace else, that's just the way I'd said it.
So when you still manage to take offense to what I actually wrote, I feel like flinging my laptop through the window and calling it quits. It can feel insulting to have people imply you're trying to insult them when you're actually trying to avoid it, see? So thank you for editing your answer, I hate being capslocked at.
The conflict I see here is that the original rounds were created to go "hey now you have to write something that's not based on someone else's idea"[...]
See, I always thought it was more about just doing non-MLP things. Your words actually made me see though how the far greater freedom of the original round might be hampered by even vague art. But, like I said, I think this is more a problem for people that go into rounds with an idea already in place. If that's what the original rounds are for, why not get rid of the prompt altogether?
I'm not an artist, so I don't know if the freedom getting passed onto them would make them happy or not.
That this would shift the purpose of the round towards artists doing original art is a given. I wonder if that's bad, though? Right now, this group is more-or-less a pure writing group, with a few also doing art. If the group wants to stay like this, I can understand not wanting to give away the 'power' to the artists, but would be a fair thing if there were more artists without an interest in writing themselves to join in the future.
to clarify what I mean about complicating the writing: the artwork becomes that one good scene. in the short stories.
That is a fair point and I think I haven't thought this through thoroughly. Having a piece of art basically represent everything that would be possible to be expressed in a minific does restrict a hellova lot. Hmm... might still try it, but I see now why it might be problematic.
>>shinygiratinaz
Keep in mind that would be every fifteen weeks — or three and a half months. Even "every other Writeoff" would be one and a half months between art rounds.
I don't think every writeoff (or even every pony writeoff) needs to be an art round, but spacing them out that far just for burnout prevention seems excessive.
As for burnout, that is a good point. If we did these too frequently, there's certainly a chance of submissions going down. Maybe one art round for every five write-offs?
Keep in mind that would be every fifteen weeks — or three and a half months. Even "every other Writeoff" would be one and a half months between art rounds.
I don't think every writeoff (or even every pony writeoff) needs to be an art round, but spacing them out that far just for burnout prevention seems excessive.
>>horizon
Hmm. Yeah that's a good point, that is a really long time. I'd be fine with every other write-off if everybody else was cool with that.
Hmm. Yeah that's a good point, that is a really long time. I'd be fine with every other write-off if everybody else was cool with that.
>>RogerDodger
Um ... it's now April 13, and according to the schedule, the writing period of a minific competition is going to start in about 48 hours. Shouldn't the new thread already be created, and the prompt submission and voting be rolling by now?
Um ... it's now April 13, and according to the schedule, the writing period of a minific competition is going to start in about 48 hours. Shouldn't the new thread already be created, and the prompt submission and voting be rolling by now?
